Dear kfangurl: What are some dramas where the leads are nice?

Reaper525 writes:

So my question is: Is it just me or is it really hard to find likable leads these days in dramas? I mean most female leads these days annoy me compared to older dramas. But also male leads are just sometimes you know …. facepalm material.

Is that me or is there actually something changing in dramas? Back in the day I liked 9/10 of the dramas (and their leads) that I watched but now it is more like 3-4/10…

Am I getting old? 😀

This.. might be somewhat subjective..? 😅

Dear Reaper525,

I’m sorry about your recent struggles with drama leads. While I personally haven’t had the same struggle to a similar extent, I do concede that there’s been a recent trend where dramas have been playing with the idea of a more outspoken and assertive female lead. This is nothing new, to be sure.

In 2005, My Name Is Kim Sam Soon burst onto the drama scene and many viewers found the female lead’s frank and no-nonsense nature a breath of fresh air.

I’ve found that exploring this different style of female lead can be very interesting, and can make for different narrative directions than what we’re used to. For example, I found the strong, in-yo-face female lead in this year’s It’s Okay To Not Be Okay very confronting to start, but Show made it worth my while, with how sensitively it peeled back her prickly outer layers to reveal more of her mental and emotional landscape. Also, I feel like if we are ok to afford prickly male leads the benefit of the doubt, then it makes sense that we offer the same to our female leads as well.

Certainly, this style of female lead doesn’t appeal to everyone, and I can imagine your frustration at how quite a few recent dramas seem to be embracing a similar style of female lead in their stories.

Also, I appreciate your viewpoint, that the male leads can also be frustrating.

PERSONAL CONTEXT

I think that personal context plays a huge role in how we perceive and receive our dramas, so one man’s meat is absolutely possibly another man’s poison.

Recently, we exchanged thoughts on this year’s Into The Ring, where you found the female lead too rough and unlikable, while I found her to be admirable and endearing – once Show peeled back a few of those rougher outer layers.

WHAT IS OUR DEFINITION OF “NICE”?

This brings me to the question: What’s our definition of “nice” for this post?

Some characters appear nice to begin with, but once we get to know them, they are far from nice at their core. Conversely, some characters may appear rough &/or prickly to start with, but once we grow to understand them a little better, we might discover that they’re really good, decent people.

Because many shows use this character exploration device, I think it would be too limiting to only consider dramas where the leads are immediately demonstrated to be nice people. I think it’s reasonable to include shows where the leads might be portrayed with an initial, small to moderate amount of prickliness. However, I will endeavor to exclude dramas where either lead is presented as excessively rough &/or prickly.

DRAMAS WHERE I FIND THE LEADS ARE NICE

Here’s a list of recent-ish dramas – recent-ish being within the last 2 years, roughly – where I personally find the leads to be nice, albeit occasionally with a little bit of initial aloofness or prickliness. I’ve excluded older dramas from this list, since your struggle has specifically been with newer dramas.

Important note: I’ve included a Niceness Quotient for each drama, to specifically indicate how nice I feel the leads are. This is NOT necessarily reflective of my overall grade for the show.

At Eighteen

Niceness Quotient: 10/10

Both our leads are really good kids. They’re good-natured, wholesome and earnest, and their eventual relationship is healthy and warm. Our male lead starts our story being misunderstood by a lot of people, in part because of his reticent nature. And our female lead, kind soul that she is, takes it upon herself to reach out to the misunderstood outcast.

Review is here.

18 Again

Niceness Quotient: 10/10

Both our leads are quickly shown to be good people, where their relationship has been eroded by difficult circumstances and unfortunate misunderstandings. I find both characters likable and sympathetic in both timelines. I’m still watching this as I type this, but this is turning out to be a heartwarming story of perspective, hope and redemption.

Review is coming!

Hospital Playlist

Niceness Quotient: 10/10

All our main guys are good, decent people, each with their own endearing quirk. Our female lead shines the brightest, though, for being wonderfully warm and caring, on top of being extremely accomplished as a doctor. Heartwarming and wholesome; you’d be hard pressed to find an unlikable key character in this ensemble.

Review is here.

Record Of Youth

Niceness Quotient: 8/10

I do have my quibbles with how Show is handled, and how this key relationship is handled as well, but it is true that both leads are presented as nice and good people.

Review is coming!

Crash Landing On You

Niceness Quotient: 8/10

Our male lead leans distant and aloof at first, and some viewers would find our female lead’s behavior annoying and presumptuous in the beginning, but if you push past the potential initial discomfort, I think both characters turn out to be endearing, likable and admirable in their own ways.

Review is here.

Hi Bye, Mama!

Niceness Quotient: 10/10

This story is about a different kind of love than most kdramas, since it focuses on parental and familial love, on top of romantic love. I think it’s Show’s strength that all our key players are good, decent, nice people, because this meant that I often felt conflicted over who to root for – and I mean this in the best way.

Review is here.

A Piece Of Your Mind

Niceness Quotient: 9/10

Our male lead appears to be distant and inscrutable at first, but it doesn’t take long to see that he has a good heart. Our female lead is immediately shown to be warm, empathetic and considerate to the people around her, and I liked her very quickly into my watch.

Review is here.

Find Me In Your Memory

Niceness Quotient: 9/10

Our male lead is introduced as an all-business, emotionally distant sort of character, but we quickly realize that this is because he is harboring a lot of past hurt and trauma, and is actually a very goodhearted, decent person. Our female lead can come across a little ditzy, which might annoy some viewers, but we learn fairly quickly that there’s more to her than meets the eye. Both characters turn out to be very caring and warm.

Review is here.

Oh My Baby

Niceness Quotient: 8/10

Our male lead is presented as distant and even a little bit rude at first, and because this lasts a little longer than just the initial few episodes, I’m docking off an extra point in terms of Show’s Niceness Quotient. However, he does turn out to be a big ol’ marshmallow, who’s very dorky and endearing. Our female lead quickly comes across as a sincere individual earnestly looking for happiness, so I had no problems liking her as a character.

Review is here.

Do You Like Brahms?

Niceness Quotient: 10/10

This is a case where our leads might even be faulted for being too nice – but I guess everyone has some kind of lesson to learn? Both leads are shy, bashful types, and their thoughtful sincerity really shines through in their various relationships. I’m still watching this as I type this, so I don’t yet have an opinion of the whole show, but our leads are definitely on the extreme end of nice.

Review is coming!

Romance Is A Bonus Book

Niceness Quotient: 9/10

I docked the Niceness Quotient by a bit because our male lead can be a little petty and prickly at first, but we quickly learn that he’s really warm and thoughtful, which helps. Our female lead is earnest, sincere and empathetic, and I liked her a great deal. Nothing to really dislike about our leads here, honestly.

Review is here.

Her Private Life

Niceness Quotient: 9/10

Our story begins with some misunderstandings between the OTP, so he can come across as a touch cocky and aloof, and she can come across as a bit – or a lot – fanatical in her fangirling, but give this one a chance to settle, and you’re likely to find this to be a very charming, nice OTP, reasonably quickly.

Review is here.

Touch Your Heart

Niceness Quotient: 8/10

He’s rather judgey, cold and prickly to start, and she does come across as rather ditzy in the beginning as well, which may not sit well with some viewers. Together, this is why I’ve docked this show’s Niceness Quotient by a little extra. However, both characters soon turn out to be likable and endearing, and they make a cute OTP.

Review is here.

The Tale of Nokdu

Niceness Quotient: 8/10

Well, he lies to her in the beginning (out of necessity), so that’s one point down, and she can be quite rough with him from time to time (understandable, since he lied to her), so that’s the other point down. But, these are ultimately both very wholesome and endearing characters, and they are very cute together, which is why I’ve included them on this list.

Review is here.

One Spring Night

Niceness Quotient: 8/10

Our female lead might be a little too frank for some people, and her sense of humor might be rather obtuse as well, so she might feel a little brusque or odd in the beginning, but if you can accept this as a character quirk, she’s actually a good person with a clear sense of what she values.  Our male lead is quickly winsome and endearing, and I thought they made a great couple.

Review is here.

When The Camellia Blooms

Niceness Quotient: 8/10

Some viewers might find our female lead too timid and spineless in the beginning, and they might also find our male lead too loud and in-yo-face as well, but beyond the surface, both are very goodhearted individuals. It’s gratifying to see her grow into her own and become braver, and it’s extremely heartwarming to see how unabashedly he loves her, too.

Flash Review is here.

A Poem A Day

Niceness Quotient: 8/10

Our male lead can be rather distant, and because that is sustained for longer than just the initial few episodes, I’m docking two points on the Niceness Quotient. Our female lead is earnest and quite endearing though. Overall, a low-key but pretty sweet OTP.

Flash Review is here.

Terius Behind Me

Niceness Quotient: 9/10

He’s secretive and distant, especially at first, but that’s out of necessity, to protect his spy identity. It’s soon clear to see that he’s an endearing dork, even though he’s also a very accomplished secret agent. She, on the other hand, is consistently warm and likable, and her quick thinking and sharp mom-savvy, easily match the extent of his spy know-how. A very heartwarming pair that I enjoyed very much.

Flash Review is here.

Beauty Inside

Niceness Quotient: 8/10

She can be rather outspoken and possesses some celebrity airs, which might be off-putting to some viewers, but I found her likable overall, despite her flaws. He’s pleasantly deadpan through most of our story, and I loved the idea that because of his face blindness, he loved her for her, no matter what she looked like. A very sparky OTP that felt natural and effortless together.

Review is here.

Weightlifting Fairy Kim Bok Joo

Niceness Quotient: 8/10

Our female lead is not prickly, but the interpretation of her character can come across as rather exaggerated and unnatural at first, which might turn off some viewers. But once you allow that to settle, our female lead turns into a very relatable everygirl. Our male lead is a warm, loyal, altogether decent guy, and together, they are an adorable explosion of cuteness.

Review is here.

Find Yourself [China]

Niceness Quotient: 9/10

Our female lead is likable and earnest and full of heart, and I liked her immediately. Our male lead can appear a little brazen at times, which is why I’ve docked the Niceness Quotient by a little. But overall, I’d say he’s a pure-hearted, sincerely earnest suitor who’s quite easy to like.

Review is here.

Put Your Head On My Shoulder [China]

Niceness Quotient: 9/10

Our female lead is cheerful and possesses an independent streak that makes her a little feisty, but not unlikable. I’ve docked the Niceness Quotient by a little bit, because our male lead does appear to be rather aloof at first, but because he falls for her first, and hard, and is so earnest and dorky about trying to understand girls and feelings and romance, it’s difficult to hold it against him.

Review is here.

The Romance of Tiger and Rose [China]

Niceness Quotient: 9/10

Our female lead is cheerful, determined and all-around likable. I docked the Niceness Quotient a little bit, since our male lead starts by trying to poison our female lead (not really a spoiler, since it’s foundational to the story). But that all changes quickly when he falls for her, and hard.

Flash Review is here.

Hallyu Classic Bonus: All About Eve

I’m including this one coz it’s far back enough (20 years! 😱) that it ought to feel new to many drama fans in our midst.

Niceness Quotient: 9/10

She’s warm, sunny and kind, and very likable, while he’s jovial and pleasant – but rather distant, at least at first. That’s why I docked the Niceness Quotient by a bit. Over time, though, he proves himself to be honest, patient and affectionate, and I ended up really, really enjoying Jang Dong Gun in this (so! charming! 😍). Such a fresh and engaging watch, despite its vintage.

Review is here.

IN CLOSING

This list isn’t comprehensive, of course. But I do think this list covers a good handful of recent-ish dramas where the leads are nice, so I hope you’ll find some drama ideas – and some hope? –  from this post!

Also, like I mentioned above, everyone, do feel free to share your favorites in the comments, since there are literally so many shows that I haven’t yet watched.

I hope this list helps!

Love! ❤️

~kfangurl

I’ve told you my picks; now tell me yours?

POST-SCRIPT:

1. If you feel that I missed anything, or if you have your own insights that you’d like to share with the rest of us, do tell us about it in the comments!

2. Do you have a question of your own? Drop me a comment here or on the Dear kfangurl page, or send me an email!

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merij1
merij1
11 months ago

Beez, are you checking out Lovestruck in the City, co-starring Ji Chang-wook in an ensemble cast?

Only one episode has aired on Netflix, with a new one dropping every four days until episode 16 in mid-Feb.

He’s not a wall-climbing action hero in this one. Just an rom-com architect guy. He’s got a nice look though.

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  merij1

This thread is already pretty old.
Maybe you should email her directly or write it down and recommend it to her again after she posted in a new thread ^^

Isn’t she a big fan of ji chang wook? So she should definitely hear about this

merij1
merij1
11 months ago
Reply to  reaper525

I don’t have Beez’ address but this is hardly urgent and she does monitor new comments via email.

Probably she’s focused on family over this Christmas weekend!

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  merij1

Okay my bad

merij1
merij1
11 months ago
Reply to  reaper525

You were being considerate!

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago

Thanks to everyone. Since I have asked this question you guys left a lot of comments. I read all of them ^^
Thanks for all the interesting drama suggestions.
Let’s see what the future will give us ^^ Maybe even a few more dramas with likeable leads.

drdd
drdd
11 months ago

I am glad someone asked this question because I am noticing this trend of physically abusive/very loud shouty female leads and it’s so annoying lol.
I think that is the writers way of doing a ‘strong’ woman. An example is Dan-Ah in Strongest Deliveryman. Just my thoughts!

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  drdd

Totally agree with you. I hope they fix that on the near future.
I usually love Chae Soo Bin in everything she does but that was just……
I always say imagine a guy doing it to a girl. If it is not acceptable than why is it the other way round?

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  reaper525

@reaper @drdd – You guys need to widen your eyes. I’m not saying you’re wrong about the female actresses but there are equally, although maybe not the exact same in terms of actual acts, dirty, mean and/or downright nasty deeds done by both sexes to each other.

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

ok

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

Finally came to an answer:
Can’t I have a conversation without you butting in and forcing your opinion on others?
I already had a discussion about this topic with you. And now you butt in again?
I have my opinion and you have yours. Life with it. Can’t be that hard.
Why is only your opinion right? Every single god damn time.
I get it men are bad and women just do what they have to do.
You always come back to me and try to indoctrinate it into my brain.
Such a pain.

merij1
merij1
11 months ago
Reply to  reaper525

I have no standing to intervene in this discussion and am clearly a fool to wade into it, but there it is. This is a lovely place and we’d all like to keep it that way.

Beez, you now know to not respond to Reaper each and every time, especially on the subject of gender relations.

Reaper, I like to think you’ve had time to regret the the wording in your last response. Old farts always think they have wisdom to offer, even when we don’t, but please indulge me enough to consider this simple advice: it’s better to draw these lines much sooner in the conversation, before you get so annoyed you can’t help but speak harshly.

Moths can’t resist their attraction to the flame. But we are not moths.

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  merij1

I am sorry to disappoint you but I don’t regret my words.

If I remember correctly I tried to draw the line at least twice in the previous conversation.

I also know this shouldn’t happen in this lovely place. So my sincere apologies go out to you.

merij1
merij1
11 months ago
Reply to  reaper525

Fair enough

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  merij1

– at least you tried. But I’d like to point out to everyone here – my last response to reaper was directed to, not only him but also to ddrd (hope I got his/her name right) and I agreed with reaper’s opinion that some of the female characters do awful things to men but men also do awful things to women. Reaper feels singled out by me for some reason. Maybe in light of our past history, but even then, as far as I was concerned, we were merely discussing, not even a heated discussion – nothing more.

Natalia
Natalia
11 months ago
Reply to  reaper525

@reaper, this thread has gotten way too toxic, please let’s move along man. Beez, it isn’t worth continuing dear. Guys, we are all people of different ages, cultures, backgrounds, plus we’ve lived our lives differently, and above all we have characters that differ and we have differing levels of maturity. It’s ok to have a different view on things too, let’s not get all worked up, especially since we all know that a discussion over the internet can easily lead to misunderstandings. Come on, let’s end it here.

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  Natalia

@everyone else – I believe I’m always courteous and I try to be kind. I am not going to censor myself for one person who gets offended and hyped up everytime I defend women. You notice when the conversation was about my almost rape where I defended myself, reaper was fine. But when BE mentioned a woman broke his ribs, reaper almost had a complete melt down. It’s similar when discussing female characters. Frankly, I was never that perturbed by his comments but I did notice them and thought “as he gets older, he’ll see” and I never pushed back at him directly. I’m actually surprised by his outburst as if I were picking on him or something. But if he can’t handle this amount of matter of fact response, that’s not even directed at him personally, then he needs to find whatever he needs to do to cope.

@reaper – Why is it only you and not geo, BE, or meriji1 or anyone else that thinks I’m “butting in”?

merij1
merij1
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

I doubt I’m alone in confessing that I didn’t read the vast majority of your exchanges, so I have little idea what either of you were saying.

I reacted to this last thread only because it appeared to be getting out of hand.

Tbh, the rest of us have little motivation to go back to figure out who said what or why, nor to name winners vs. losers, aggressors vs. victims.

We’re here to talk about K-drama.

So, as Natalia advised, try to give each other a little distance and let’s just move on!

(Beez, I for one relish your replies to my comments. You’re the most reliable responder on the blog and I appreciate that. Evidently, Reaper does not. And that’s how it works. We are all different people. )

Peace.

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  merij1

– the only reason my reaction has been so visceral is 1) reaper surprised me because I truly had no idea that I was upsetting him. And mainly 2) I had not even seen his outburst (I have not looked at the site all day today) so I definitely wasn’t in a back and forth with him so the fact that people here were calling for me, specifically, to “let it go”, etc., is the only thing that upset me and made me feel the need to respond further than my initial response directly to reaper.

merij1
merij1
11 months ago
Reply to  merij1

No worries on that. I don’t think either of us was referring to replies you made today nor suggesting you’ve made mistakes in the past. But, again, I didn’t read the prior exchanges so I speak from ignorance.

Only Natalia knows what she meant, but I’m simply suggesting you let it go that Reaper is annoyed, because trying to work it out right now with him is not a good bet.

Give him some space and time and whatever will be will be.

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  merij1

– gotcha. I just felt blind sided. Out of the blue in what was a very pleasant discussion from my pov. _(ツ)_/¯ 

I’m just sayin’ https://thefangirlverdict.com/2020/11/29/dear-kfangurl-what-are-some-dramas-where-the-leads-are-nice/comment-page-1/#comment-91893

BE
BE
11 months ago
Reply to  Natalia

The only thing I would add, knowing this as well as much of my attempt at dry humor might zip right past folks–wtf is he on about this time?– in internet conversations is this: my whole problem with eyesight, especially insofar as catching my voluminous typos are concerned, has been caused by what is known as Droopy Eyelid Syndrome. That is, it was only when I reached my seventies that I truly realized what I should have known back in the days when I was Reaper’s age: my gosh, I need to at least try to open my eyes more, my own short sightedness, such a lousy fact of life, pisses me off. And alas, this is as true for my whole outlook as it is my physical vision.

merij1
merij1
11 months ago
Reply to  BE

I’m totally with you on the dry humor half the planet doesn’t get, at all.

Huh. My eyelids also droop. But unless this is a “Fight Club moment” and I’m actually you, I’m going to guess yours is 50% metaphorical.

BE
BE
11 months ago
Reply to  merij1

Ah, even up to five years ago, my green eyes, so bright and clear, all there to the naked eye, were my very best feature. I took a selfie for my granddaughter yesterday, and jeez, barely above the pupil, hardly one half of the iris below it visible; the rest experientially meta…physical. The mind body connection.

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  reaper525

@reaper – I respond to everyone here the same. We all talk to each other no matter who the individual was responding to originally. I’ve tried to allow for your immaturity and even ignore your obvious problem with women. But you’re not extending the same courtesy to me. I’m sorry that you get so emotionally invested and upset. Why don’t you try changing your name and try again? But be warned, real life won’t allow you to do that so before you go out into the real world where you’ll have to deal with women who actually have independent thought, you could practice around here some more.

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

First of all I saw that you think I was fine about your case of selfdefense and only cared about BE.
That is wrong I was truly happy that you managed to defend yourself. The thing is with me happiness is an weaker emotion than anger.
So I am truly sorry that I made you feel like I didn’t care. I always care. And the guys you mentioned are trash that lost the right to be called human.

The fact that you think I am a little boy and immature … well I can accept that but just so you know even I had my experiences with women and non of them were pleasant. That is when I learned not to just accept everything women do and say just because they are women.
Even tho I still think of women as something better than men. I always hold women in a higher place but the more I see how they act the more my beliefs crumble.
Which means you don’t have to defend them against me. As long as a women is kind I have absolutely no problems.

I don’t get why you think our last discussion was pleasant. The ending was surely not pleasant. You misunderstood what I said and then you tried to explain yourself but each time you did I felt more and more like you think of me as a villain.

Seeing that you mock me and tell me to create a new account…
I created this new account because I didn’t want a random person on the internet to still be mad at me.
Even tho I still think I was partially right in the discussion back then which you did not acknowledge by the way.
I kicked myself and my pride to come back and give it another shot. But it seems like I only fed into your ego and self righteousness.

It is pretty new for me that somebody completely misses my kindness and thinks somewhat poorly of me.

The immature villain with women problems is out.
Peace

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  kfangurl

I am sorry. With your involvement now it‘ll be the end. My apologies.

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  kfangurl

Oh I meant my participation in discussion.
And my conversation and future conversations with beez.
I am not going anywhere.

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  kfangurl

My bad.

Yes I am not going anywhere.

DRDD
DRDD
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

Hey, thanks for replying but I’m a bit confused lol. Open my eyes to what exactly? I’m giving my opinion about not liking loud, shouty physically abusive females on a post about someone wanting leads that are nice.

I had just finished watching Strongest Deliveryman, and the character of Dan-ah was in my head. (I am a female btw, I don’t know if you thought I was a dude being one sided about female leads without talking about male leads being jerks.)

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  DRDD

I am sooo sorry… I literally dragged you into this mess. 😂 My bad

DRDD
DRDD
11 months ago
Reply to  reaper525

lol it’s okay! I’m fairly new to watching Kdramas, and I appreciated the question! There are so many of them out there, and it’s like kissing frogs to find a prince, lol 🙂

I have googled ‘Kdramas with male leads that aren’t jerks’ and ‘Kdramas with strong female leads’. A list of ‘nice leads’ is a pretty amazing concept!

As an example, I was told that Secret Garden is a MUST WATCH and a CLASSIC, and while yes, Hyun Bin is hot, and I loved the angst, I can not get over the male lead literally throwing clothes at the female lead, and putting her down because of her looks and complexion.

So yep, bring on all the questions about nice leads!

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  DRDD

@DRDD – yup. That’s what I thought.

DRDD
DRDD
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

My bad lol!

I think a lot of times when women aren’t overly cutesy online (lots of !!! and lols etc) ppl assume it’s a guy. I don’t really comment here a lot or I would get an avatar and all that.

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  DRDD

@DRDD – oh no! It was my mistake. I’m just not saying more on the subject as I don’t want to stir things up.

DRDD
DRDD
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

Not sure what your watching schedule is like, however I recommend watching Strongest Deliveryman! I feel like it’s a gem of a show. The second lead Kim Seon-ho is getting a lot of attention now from Start Up, however this was the show that I first saw him in, and his performance really blew me away.

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  DRDD

Thanks for the recc, DRDD

merij1
merij1
11 months ago
Reply to  drdd

How about women who grab men by the arm as they attempt to walk away? I would enjoy a show with lots of that. Or at least less of the reverse. lol

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  merij1

– Well it’s as I always say – it depends on who’s doing the wrist grabbing.

From what I can see its cultural because if the young lady doesn’t want to go she puts up full resistance and her feet don’t go anywhere but if she doesn’t mind the WG (just made that up for Wrist Grabber 😆) then she “fake-reluctantly” goes along.

Of course, all of that is moot if the script needs her to allow herself to be dragged for some needed conflict or something.

merij1
merij1
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

All well and good. But what’s good for the goose should be good for the gander, eh? Let’s see some more assertive FLs grabbing those guys’ arms!

(I’m pretty sure “gander” means male goose, btw.)

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  merij1

– Yup! I’m all for it!

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  merij1

– although, it’ll won’t be easy to believe that somebody that weighs at most 98 pounds could pull 165-175 pounds anywhere. I suppose that would let us know for sure that wrist grabbing is all about the “wants”. 😉

merij1
merij1
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

A lot of it is about attitude. If you have the confidence…

BE
BE
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

I have to say after reading this discussing the wrist grabbing in It’s Okay became an annoying distraction for me, yuk. I even started to think…have I ever done that? Can’t remember. Don’t think so. I do have have shameful memories of other such minor peccadillos but not that. How embarrassing if someone were to call me on that. “Whattya mean, BE, you forgot about it? You were such a lout.” Gosh, mianhe!

And since this post is about good behavior, I just love when the women in these shows start out their discussions with “Oppa!”

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  BE

@BE – I doubt you’re guilty and here’s why – the reason the WG is such an issue with Western audiences (and younger audiences from all over) is because we don’t usually see someone getting grabbed that way unless were witnessing a full on domestic fight or bullying is going on. Usually you’ll see western couples grabbing the upper arm and walking/”escorting” the woman side by side but it’s more subtle than actually wrist grabbing someone but it’s still an aggressive act. From what I can see from Kdramas, while the wrist grab is a form of possession, at least in older Kdramas, it wasn’t that big of an issue. If it were done by the man the woman liked, she had no problem with it. It was only a problem (note I didn’t say “offensive”) if it were being done by a man she did not want to be possessed by and he’s dragging her along.

I’ve tried to explain K-drama relationships to friends who don’t watch. They think it’s strange when I tell them that if characters are seen holding hands by friends/family everyone knows that they’re a couple from that point forward. So like the simple act of hand holding being so different, I view wrist grabbing as just a different part of another culture, and I use that culture’s own view of it rather than my own.

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  BE

@BE – To add to my comment, I’m not saying that wrist grabbing isn’t aggressive. It is. And it’s responded to by the female character as aggressive – either by her resisting or being happy because she now knows that the ML considered her as his. I know that “as his” is problematic in today’s society but I have no problem with it as long as it doesn’t mean belonging like an object, or result in violence from an unhealthy obsession. BE, I’m sure you remember a time when that’s how people labeled their relationships – as “belonging” to each other. Only sick people took that to a weird or violent level and those type of people will do that whether the labelling changes or not.

DRDD
DRDD
11 months ago
Reply to  merij1

There are a couple shows that have had the Reverse Wrist Grab, haha! I remember Something in the Rain had that and it was the first time I had seen it, and I was wondering if it was because it’s a noona romance lol

merij1
merij1
11 months ago

I’m adding Because This Is My First Life to the list. We just finished this wonderful show, which streams on Netflix.

I link below to KFG’s A- review, but beware there’s a split in the viewing community about whether it went a little sideways in the second-to-last episode. (I think we all agree it worked out nicely by the end.)

Beez and I are in the camp that thinks an unexpected decision by one of the romantic leads near the end was perfectly organic and not just another of these weird wrinkles writers introduce to prolong dramatic tension near the end. As Beez puts it, there’s no “stupid time jump, noble idiocy, or amnesia.”

As an aside, it continues to amaze me how many writers mortally wound their own creation near the end of the show’s run. Maybe they’re too exhausted at that point with all the rewrites to think clearly?

But to me, this show is NOT an example of that. It’s very well written and all six leads — the primary OTP and two secondary couples — are lovely people who treat others well, even in their moments of greatest pain/hurt. Which, I’d say, is a pretty solid “acid test” for whether a person is truly good or nice.

Check it out!

https://thefangirlverdict.com/2017/12/04/flash-review-because-this-is-my-first-life/

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  merij1

– I tried to “like” your comment about Because This is My First Life that came in my email, but it won’t take me to it!

merij1
merij1
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

It’s not showing up yet on the blog. I thought that only happened when you include an external link. But apparently not.

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  merij1

I watched s few episodes of this but it didn’t work for me.

BE
BE
11 months ago
Reply to  merij1

I have not seen this, but the problem with sticking the landing for me in KDrama is that the show runners to keep viewers hooked in a long season throw in too many plot complications for an ending to feel organic. I really felt that with CLOY with its hills are live with the sound of music finale.

BE
BE
11 months ago

Though he plays it a bit close to the vest, I find Miss Hammurabi’s Im Ba Reun, played by Kim Myung Soo, is a pretty good guy.

reaper525
reaper525
1 year ago

Well it looks like a memorable moment in this drama which means the nickname seems accurate.
And I really don’t appreciate you sending me pictures of half naked men. No more in the future. Thank you very much. ^^

beez
1 year ago
Reply to  reaper525

@reaper – He’s not naked. He’s wearing a dish towel! 😆

reaper525
reaper525
1 year ago
Reply to  beez

True that is why I said HALF naked. 😀
But I have to say it seems difficult to look good in a dish towel but he totally pulls it off ^^

beez
1 year ago
Reply to  reaper525

@reaper – and he’s not even in his best shape in that picture but since you told me not to send you any nekkid men’s pictures… 😞
😄

reaper525
reaper525
1 year ago
Reply to  beez

He was in even better shape? Damn if somebody paid me to work out I would do it ^^
Yes please refrain from half naked men pictures 😀 And half naked women pictures. I am more of a summerdress or evening gown instead of underwear or bikini kind of guy lol ^^

BE
BE
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

beez have you ogled photos of the young Lee Byung Hun? I think he sports a 12 pack, yuk.

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  BE

@BE – need you ask? 😆 Did you know that he was one of the Terminators but I forget which sequel? Despite his height, that 12 pack was all he needed to intimidate John Connor and crew!

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

😂

BE
BE
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

And he had his share of bad boys in his younger days as well.

Kay
Kay
1 year ago

I would definitely add Shopping King Louie to the list. Both leads are sooo nice in that one 🙂 I’ve had more of the opposite experience myself. I feel like there are more “nice” male lead these days than some years back. People aren’t as into the super prickly guy. Guys are usually just a bit cold but quickly warm up. And there are lots of super nice guys right from the start too.

I think the female leads are just as likable. We do get more strong and outspoken female leads these days, but they don’t usually come off as harsh (excluding maybe It’s Okay to Not Be Okay…she was extra special, lol) and are quite likable. I like seeing a variety of types of leads from drama to drama, and I think we have a pretty good mix right now of prickly and nice for both and male and female leads. As you said though, it really is all subjective as to what we each define as nice and where a character falls on that scale 🙂

merij1
merij1
1 year ago

@ Reaper525, you watch Viki with the rando fan comments turned on? Omg, turn that nonsense off!

I believe it toggles on/off from the upper right portion of the screen.

reaper525
reaper525
1 year ago
Reply to  merij1

Yeah I know but sometimes I am curious what those braindead people think about the drama and certain characters. But I have learned I never match with what they think so I just keep them off. ^^

merij1
merij1
1 year ago
Reply to  reaper525

I find those comments incredibly distracting and rarely insightful. Most of them rank up there with the bizarrely self-absorbed replies I see to customer questions on Amazon listings. Such as:

Q: How many of these come in a package?
A: I don’t know, because I lost mine before I opened it

Q: Can this be used with model X of product Y?
A: I don’t use model X, so I can’t say

reaper525
reaper525
1 year ago
Reply to  merij1

True they are very distracting. That is a hilarious comparison 😀

BE
BE
1 year ago
Reply to  reaper525

This kind of sounds like when there are special broadcasts of basketball playoff games and two or three experts keep a running commentary. Or more closely sound cloud comments as songs are being played. You tube reax too.

beez
1 year ago
Reply to  merij1

– YES! THIS! Do people really think they’re obliged to say something – anything – even if they don’t have the answer and even though the question is directed at thousands of people who bought the product?

beez
1 year ago
Reply to  merij1

@reaper – I tried watching one of my favorite FAMILY dramas (not only about family but “family” rated) with the fan comments on. (I had watched it several times and just wanted a change-up.) Now I know, I teeter on the line with the wink-wink nudge nudge (okay, and a bit of drool at the abs) but the fan comments are just plain lewd, rude and crude. And I did not pick those words just because they rhyme.

Prashil Prakash
Prashil Prakash
1 year ago

Be Melodramatic’s Eun Jung.

Prison Playbook’s both male leads.

My Mister’s male lead too I guess (though I can’t pinpoint him for certain cuz of the whole bribe thing)

I wanna say almost every character from Reply series, but this post is just about the Leads and well…. At least in 94 and 97 the ‘leads’ weren’t technically “nice”(I still love them though)

Ah Yes! Also The main lead of Good Doctor.

Oooh oooh. Almost forgot, Mystic pop up bar too.

BE
BE
1 year ago

Only reason Park Dong Hoon in My Mister considered the bribe was because his mother had wanted to mortgage her home to put his out of work oldest brother into business. And then it was only for a New York minute.

Reply series is older. I only saw 1988, and all the men and boys were pretty good guys, a couple of them real sweethearts.

Prashil Prakash
Prashil Prakash
11 months ago
Reply to  BE

@BE that’s True that Dong hoon had a reason for considering the bribe
I’m assuming we’re putting the “nice” tags for unwavering Moral behaviour. Taking that in account, considering to take the bribe part does Dock some points.

Don’t get me wrong, I love that man! He’s literally in my top 5 characters of all Time. And I do know he’s generally associated with being the nicest guy.
But I do think the bribe part does make a difference (and for good too, that makes him more human)

Reply 88 is the only one I haven’t seen (saving the best for later)
But if you only consider the Leads in the other 2(97 and 94), they are quite Bratty. Even though thats their charm. But that also docks points.

Supporting characters Although a literal Angels.

BE
BE
11 months ago

Doesn’t it make him nicer, that he resisted temptation? Of course, it is Dong Hoon’s great tragedy, as his monk pal told him, that he is always trying to be so virtuous, as well as his great blessing. I have more problems with him, however, being a kind of absentee husband, who cares more about his family than his wife’s, goes out drinking after work every night, and even before he knew anything about the affair shuts her out. For me he comes out of the whole bribe thing with Ji An’s unintended assist smelling like a rose.

1988, of the young people, one, the oldest young woman, is a bit rough edged, but they are all pretty sympathetic and touching, and the boys are all sweethearts, each in their own way. The adults, well the wives at first appear a bit bitchy, and the husbands at first seem less than solid, but they too are just completely loveable, and the two single parents, even moreso.

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  BE

@BE – Wowwww. The wives seem bitchy to you? I can introduce you to some truly bitchy women. The wives in the Reply series are ideal wives. It’s like I always say, “Women wouldn’t nag if men did what we asked them within the first 10 times!” 😋

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

“The wives in the Reply series are ideal wives.”You must be out of your mind beez

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  reaper525

@reaper – I joke a lot but in this I am totally serious. (Based on what I can remember from the series, of course.) The only wife that I remember being problematic was the financially well-to-do wife but only because she was rather hard on her joke-too-much husband. But hey, I can’t judge her too harshly because she would be the one having to put up with that constantly. What’s cute to others, can wrack the nerves of a spouse.

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

It just looks like we have different thoughts on what a ideal wife is.

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  reaper525

@reaper – Well, young man, prepare yourself because after 20 years of marriage that’s about the best you can hope for. It doesn’t get any better than the wives from Reply 1988. lol

On that note, I’ll pick up with you guys a bit later cause I’ve got stuff I gotta go do right now.

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

Prepare myself for what? Marriage? No thanks.

BE
BE
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

At the beginning? Cheetah lady is always running down her husband, who is just trying to cheer everyone up and she continuously hits him, hits him! And Il Hwa is non stop railing Dong Il about money when she knows he comes home each night having worked himself sick and in need of a stiff drink in order to get up the next day and do it all again. (I would say Il Hwa is my least favorite of the ahjummas). They change and grow. And in part because their husbands do as well.

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  BE

Agreed

BE
BE
11 months ago
Reply to  BE

@beez fyi on this account, I had a relationship with a woman who was physically abusive, even broke my ribs once. It is not fun, especially when one has all his life eschewed violence, and made a vow everyday,everyday, of his youth because of what he had witnessed in his own childhood to never do violence to others.

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  BE

Broke your ribs? Was she a lunatic and hit you with a chair? Like damn

BE
BE
11 months ago
Reply to  reaper525

I was trying to restrain her by holding her arms pinned so she could not hit me with a roundhouse–she was so mad at me over the silliest siht, she thought I was hiding something from her, a something so unfamiliar to me I did not know what she was talking about–she had left it in our car, which infuriated her even more–so she just pounded away at my ribs. She was tough, no doubt, and in the prime of her life.

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  BE

Reading this and realising that there are actually women out there like that. Just gave me goosebumps, a cold shower ran down my back, my body temperature rose and I feel a little sick.

Still wether you were hiding something or not doesn’t justify her behaviour. I am also the type that doesn’t want to hurt anybody but I would make an exception for trash like her.

I think you and beez ran into a lot of bad people in your life. I never even met a human that bad.

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  reaper525

@reaper – At 22, if you were living in America, France, or England, I could promise you that you would definitely meet some bad apples by the time you’re 35, but since I don’t know much about German culture, I can’t speak on it other than to say, “I hope you never do”.

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

True I still have a long time to life so who knows what will come.
But just look at the murderrate in Germany it is around 300 murders per year. America has a rate pf 17,500 per year. But in America there are only 4 times as many people as in Germany.

I also hope not to run into real life villains.

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  BE

Man seriously bc of your story I am having high blood pressure. I can literally see my veins pumping blood to my muscles. And I also just lost my appetite.

“She was tough, no doubt” – who dates women like that.

@beez see that is why I don’t want a girl that can fight. A woman can always lose her temper or go insane and if she know jiu jitsu or taekwondo you have a problem. Bc as a guy you are not riled up to use full strength. I mean some bad boy would probably beat the crap out of a woman like that. But me what am I supposed to do as a nice guy?
But now i seriously step out of this conversation before my carotid artery ruptures.

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  reaper525

@reaper – I’m so sorry this is effecting you so much. But just know that BE and I are here and we’re fine now. As to women being able to fight, I think you need to try mentally stepping into the shoes of women who are faced with half the population who can physically beat them up anytime that they might lose their temper too. It’s about each individual’s character, whether they’re male or female or whether they have fighting ability or not.

Should I have been defenseless when the young man broke into my home to attack me? Since I saw his faced and new his identity, he probably would’ve had to end my life to keep me from reporting him to the police.

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

Yeah I get all of that but I am not a bad guy. Just because there are bad guys out there, doesn’t mean it has to affect me.
Exactly it is about character. But most people don’t have that.
Don’t get me wrong I also don’t like men that fight.

Of course you shouldn’t have been defenseless but that shouldn’t have happened in the first place.

It is good to know you guys are fine. So was I yesterday after around 500 push ups and pacing in my room

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  reaper525

@reaper – if you thought I implied you were a bad guy – I won’t apologize, but only because that is a total misunderstanding. I in no way think you’re a bad guy. If anything, my perception that you’ve given me is you’re still pretty innocent. I could be wrong because I don’t really know you will enough for any type of judgment – good or bad. But I always give people the benefit of the doubt until they personally show me otherwise. Still friends?

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

Whatever you say.

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  reaper525

@reaper – whoo boy. From your response, I guess my response didn’t go over too well. It is not my goal to make you feel bad. I come here to add a layer of enjoyment to my watching Kdramas and I hope interacting with other fans will help them enjoy it more too. I would never want to cause anyone to feel anything negative because of my comments.

That said, I can’t apologize for my life experiences which have resulted in my opinion about most men. If you don’t fall into that category then it should not affect you but since it does, I can only offer this – I’ll refrain as much as possible from bringing my own personal experience into the conversation (unless someone else takes us there through topic or if I feel the best way to explain my point of view of a character’s actions is to relate it to something I’ve experienced.) That’s the best I can do. But I am truly sorry that you’re having negative feelings.

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

No need to explain – I got it

merij1
merij1
11 months ago
Reply to  BE

Beez and Reaper: You guys are pretty amusing. And this time I see you’ve dragged poor BE into the mix!

lol

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  BE

@BE – oh wow. Well, BE, I never said all women are sane. In fact, I know from the male perspective we are quite crazy. Not that I’m trying to justify what that woman did to you. I don’t approve of violence ever (except in self defense) and I am a proponent of your hands should be kept to yourself when it comes to touching a person or others’ things unless you have been given permission to do so.

But I don’t remember the mom’s in the reply series being abusive? Other than Cheetah Mom was verbally hard on her husband’s psyche…?

BE
BE
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

No she hit him often early in the series.

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  BE

@BE – Ahhhh. 😟
I didn’t remember.

BE
BE
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

Oh the point I was making wasn’t about gender necessarily, but domestic violence and why I responded to the early hitting in Reply. Watching it I knew Cheetah loved her husband, and the hitting was meant to be comedic, but my own reaction was visceral because I remember a situation in my own life that did not feel very funny.

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  BE

@BE – I understand. I know a couple who are dealing with this problem of the wife hitting the husband. And she’s verrrry strong so he tries to restrain her but because of her strength, it’s hard to do since he could but he doesn’t want to hurt her. It puts him in a difficult place because the only way he could really stop her would end up with him in jail.

beez
11 months ago

@Prashil Prakash – I’m butting in here to say the fact that Dong hoon considered the bribe (which I totally missed by the way 😴) only proves just how good a guy he is. If there is no temptation at all, the person probably didn’t need the money. But to really need it and not take it speaks volumes. (Not that he and his wife were struggling financially but he could have helped his mom and brothers.) It’s similar to what they say about true courage – if the person feels no fear and performs a feat is there any real need for courage? But if a person, trembling and afraid still faces a challenge, that’s true courage.

merij1
merij1
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

Yes, he definitely considered it, putting the money in his file cabinet until he could give it sufficient thought.

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  merij1

– Oh, thanks. I did see that but I didn’t think that was him considering accepting it at all! And therefore I didn’t think that was what @BE and @Prakish were referring to. I mean, what was he supposed to do? Go running to his arch rival with money in hand? When you work with people who are out to sabotage you, you have to think about how you’re going to handle it. Do I go to my rival’s boss? (usually a misstep to go over your direct supervisors head); do I contact the supplier that sent it and return it?; do I contact the authorities but what might the repercussions be to our company’s image or relationship with that supplier? And so many more things to consider. So I can firmly say, in my opinion, (after being reminded by ) that Dong hoon did NOT even hesitate about taking the bribe. Thanks again, merij1.

merij1
merij1
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

Nice try! Your earlier observation is the correct one: that he considered it and felt an pressing need for the money makes him more real and thus more admirable.

Perfect people are generally not that easy to admire.

As to his intentions, I’m 95% certain he admitted to someone that he had been tempted enough to hesitate, even though he then decided not to take the money after leaving the office that night.

It’s always better to report an attempted bribe immediately. Especially in an office like that, where it’s widely known that management uses CCTV footage to spy on its employees.

beez
11 months ago
Reply to  merij1

– my first answer was based on what my fellow commenters told me happened but once you reminded me of the actual scene, I changed my thoughts on the circumstances and I stand ny my change.

BE
BE
11 months ago
Reply to  beez

Dong Hoon’s mother had just come to him to talk about getting a mortgage on her house for the exact amount in the bribe in order to get his oldest brother, already wallowing in his failures, back on his feet to start a business. This is the reason for a split second Dong Hoon considered the bribe. Not for himself.

merij1
merij1
11 months ago
Reply to  BE

Yes. This exactly.

Eric
Eric
1 year ago

Another one:
My Shy Boss. This one is so strange. The ML has an extreme social phobia (not much spoilers there) and FL infiltrates the company where her sister died under fishy circumstances. Only ML is just so nice that he only covers things up to protect people and then isn’t really into blocking justice, certainly doesn’t want to hurt anybody. And is looking out for FL before episode 1. And FL just is such a non-vengeful, kind and positive person that she just wants to truth to come out and not hurt anyone. And almost immediately is protecting and helping her boss with his social disability – the same person in some other drama she would be targeting for terrible revenge. Cute.

While You Were Sleeping. Both main leads pretty nice to each other from the start. ML was a little less love at first sight than FL. But still his first act is taking a huge risk to try to help her.

Funny how many dramas we could not fit into this group – usually due to ML being written as a complete jerk, at least a first. My Loverly Sam Soon, Secret Garden, Secret Life of My Secretary. Almost everything before 2010. 🙂

I’m a bit on the fence with What’s Wrong with Secretary Kim. Sure the ML is a complete narcissist (literally crosses a crowded ballroom to check himself out in mirror) Chaebol – but he’s still of kind sweet and innocent in how he goes about it. The narcissism is much more comic than malicious. And when you get further in the show he was much nicer to FL (even before the action started) than was first apparent.

phl1rxd
1 year ago

Hi Fangurl! As soon as I saw this new post notification in my email one drama and one character came to mind quite strongly.

The drama is Takane no Hana and the male lead role of Kazama Naoto (Pooh) is one of my most beloved MLs. A lot of this drama is way too over the top mangy for my tastes but the ML is a one in a zillion good guy and a phenomenal human being. His goodness brings tears to your eyes. Yes, nicer than Li Da Ren which is really saying something. Actor Mineta Kazunobu just played the be-Jesus out of this role and I will always, always have a fond spot in my heart for this absolutely dorky and completely wonderful character. Thanks to Sean for this recommendation!

Also, another drama where both ML and FL are nice is Five Enough. Great family drama and so warm and lovely. Lee Sang Tae’s character is such a mature and decent human being! I am thoroughly enjoying this drama and the niceness of the ML is a big factor on this watch. I am sorry I waited so long to check this one out. Thanks to Beez for this recommendation!

beez
1 year ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

– I’m so glad you’re enjoying Five Enough. But I must say – While we know the truth that FL is a very nice woman, I think some other characters in the show don’t think so. Mainly because she stands up for herself in a society that expects you not to as a woman and also if you’re speaking to seniors in age or status (in her case, meddling mom-in-laws).

FL is one of my most favorite characters because she manages to remain respectful even as she doesn’t cave in to expectations of women in S. K. We have seen a trend of breaking away from the silent suffering, but with some of the younger characters in dramas, it can go too far.

And Kfangurl reviewed it! So I’ll be watching for your final thoughts on it when you’re done watching.

I must admit that I’ve been waiting my entire Kdrama life you see someone slap one of these ahjummas back but when it happened, I hated the character so much (the psychopath restaurant manager in Itaewon Class) that I didn’t enjoy the scene at all! lol

reaper525
reaper525
1 year ago

I can give you another example of not nice leads. More than friends has probably one of the most annoying lead coupe that ever existed. I am about the bang my head against the wall but I can’t stop watching because I want to know what happens to all the cool side characters.
I am so worn out 😀

beez
1 year ago
Reply to  reaper525

@reaper – I hadn’t heard of that series.I looked it up and the leads all look literally like children. I guess I’m finally really a viewing things through my older eyes. It’s just that the synopsis says one of the characters liked another one for 10 years. They must’ve gone to elementary school together.

reaper525
reaper525
1 year ago
Reply to  beez

I think she started liking him at 15 or 16 so they are 25 or 26 in the story

Eric
Eric
1 year ago

Some more favorites:
1. Love in the moonlight (moonlight drawn by clouds) – thank you so much for your review of this one. A great historical fiction rom-com-adventure. As you noted in your review, the OTP are both super kind and respectful to each other throughout, and communicate (by kdrama romance standards) incredibly well with each other.
2. Queen In-hyun’s man. This one also has a time travel element to it. And the male lead coming from such a remote time would have every excuse to be written as extremely patriarchal. And yet, he was kind and respectful from the get go and the leads both generally treat each other well.
3. Bromance. If you like some Chinese language (Taiwan made) rom-com-adventure. Both leads are kind of super virtuous and treat everyone around them respectfully (except when giving a well deserved thrashing to absolute thugs). If you could nit pick the show, they are too good. But especially are standing up for each other and respecting each other from episode 1 all the way to the end. On a related note Coffee Prince is a better take on the same theme, but the male lead is not quite nice enough at first to belong on our list? thank you for your reviews of both.
4. Agree with Startup above. The OTP had slight honesty issues in the beginning but really obvious that they cared about each other and never tried to hurt each other (allowing for low-grade noble idiocy). Up to Ep14 and liking this so far.
5. Do do sol sol la la sol. Sigh. I liked this so much up through about ep 14 or so. I won’t spoil the ending but hope you review it so I can whine a bit about it more and rewrite the ending (dropped important plot threads, entirely unneeded angst, bizarre and unrealistic plot choices, turning dark for NO GOOD REASON when none of the fans wanted that, the chickening out on key ending choices). But put the leads in the running for (with some teasing and grumbling) being kind to each other from the start. Male lead was a bit cool but every time he DID anything he had her back.
6. My little lover (Japan). This one is odd even by Japanese drama standards, but the leads mostly treated each other pretty well throughout.

My two cents.

reaper525
reaper525
1 year ago
Reply to  Eric

I hear so many people praising start up on this site but when you look at the broad web out there people are really torn between really good and really bad with this one.

DRDD
DRDD
11 months ago
Reply to  reaper525

I would recommend watching first few episodes , like 1-6 or 7, then the last 2. Found family is one of my most fave tropes ever, so I really recommend the relationship between the 2nd lead, and the grandma of the main female lead.

Best relationship in the show lol and made me bawl every time (but in a good way haha!)

Trent
11 months ago
Reply to  DRDD

@DRDD Yes, exactly this! Overall I liked the show, but the highlights for me were the family reconciliation theme, and the found family (for which I am also a total sucker).

A line from my own write-up of the show: “Ji-pyeong and grandma (probably the best relationship in the show, not gonna lie)”. They were so wholesome, and that last scene between them had me leaking out the eyes, for sure.

DRDD
DRDD
10 months ago
Reply to  Trent

Hi Trent, can you link me to your site where you did the review?

I need to figure out how to get notifications about replies to my comments so I can connect better with fellow K-drama watchers (I don’t know anyone in real life who watches them, haha!)

Trent
10 months ago
Reply to  DRDD

@DRDD Sure, no problem (it’s actually usually linked from my name in posts, but I realize that’s probably a bit subtle).

The main site address is:

https://trent-goulding.dreamwidth.org

And the specific Start-up post should be at:

https://trent-goulding.dreamwidth.org/#entry-14865

reaper525
reaper525
11 months ago
Reply to  DRDD

Thanks for the tip

merij1
merij1
1 year ago
Reply to  Eric

Our 26-year old was complaining yesterday after finishing Do do sol sol la la sol . They felt emotionally whiplashed. I won’t go into spoiler territory either, but they had pretty much liked it till the end. Then bam.

However I should ask how they feel about it now, after a full day to reflect. As of yesterday morning, they were still overwhelmed by the gyrations of the last couple episodes and ticked off with the writers over the twist at the very end.

beez
1 year ago
Reply to  merij1

– I’m so envious! So now Kdrama is a family affair for you guys – that’s great!

merij1
merij1
1 year ago
Reply to  beez

They were the ones who accidently turned us onto K-drama. After years of watching Bollywood films, they started onto this.

Back then there was still a TV in our family room. We walked in on them watching Romance Is A Bonus Book and fell in love at first sight.

All three of us then watched One Spring Night and Crash Landing On You — over the same weeks but separately — but since then I don’t think we’ve ever overlapped on a show!

They are quite the individual. lol. Sorry again for the confusing non-binary pronouns, which we still struggle to remember.

beez
1 year ago
Reply to  merij1

– Ahhh. Gotcha. I didn’t understand until the last paragraph. Your effort is commendable.

Trent
1 year ago
Reply to  Eric

@Eric I also won’t spoil it (DoDoSolSolLaLaSol), but I will just observe that I very rarely say “the ending ruined the whole show,” except…in this case it might be true. Anyway, I savaged the writers for it in my write-up of the show, and that made me feel a little bit better. It was a very frothy, good-natured show up until the last 2-3 episodes.

I also am enjoying Start-up, still, although from what I can gather there is quite an ongoing war in the fandoms, split between the two male leads. Heh.

Eric
Eric
11 months ago
Reply to  Trent

Agree 100%. I hope there is a review here so we can script doctor this show. Just a few changes in direction in the last 4 episodes and it would have been perfect. For instance, the whole way Rara lost her money is the beginning was super shady. They seemed to be building towards her realizing this and (perhaps with help from more assertive friends) get the money back with some light heart highjacks – but they just dropped it. This thread would have been much better than what they actually did. They could have doubled down on happy instead of … whatever they actually were trying to do with this mess.

Ah, I read your review. Nailed it.

snow
1 year ago

I agree will all of your picks. Well, for shows that I have seen.
Recently, I think StartUp has leads that are both nice.
Not many have seen Ad Genius Lee Tae Baek but it has leads that are both sweet. Girl Who Sees Smells, Shopping King Louis are other shows that come to mind.

snow
1 year ago
Reply to  snow

With*

learjet1
learjet1
1 year ago

Just finished watching 17 not 30 this weekend and I think this is another example of a ‘nice’ couple. She is lovely from the start. He appears aloof but he is still kind to animals and wilting plants from the beginning…and he has good reason for being closed off, and once he starts opening up, he is total sweetie. They were both such loving, caring, warm characters.

merij1
merij1
1 year ago

If the target is “nice, good, decent or wholesome leads,” you can’t do better than A Thousand Goodnights, a Taiwanese show that streams on Netflix.

The premise of the show is that this one man is so decent that his goodness permeates the lives of everyone he encounters. But unlike, say, My Mister — one of the most perfect shows we’ve seen thus far — the other characters are not deeply broken to start with, so there’s less darkness to overcome or drama-as-stimulant.

It’s just a lovely ride through these people’s lives as they venture from Taipei to rural communities to explore the mysteries of this wonderful man’s life.

Here’s what I said about it last time:

https://thefangirlverdict.com/2020/08/03/dear-kfangurl-what-are-some-dramas-that-would-make-my-day-better/#comment-86196

phl1rxd
1 year ago
Reply to  merij1

Merij1 – I plan to watch this right after I finish Five Enough. I just moved it up my list to the #2 spot (above the multitude of dramas below it). There are not a lot of dramas that are interesting right now and I am in a lull so I am catching up on some drama that have been parked on the dreaded never-ending list. I also got a look at the first episode and is really beautiful. Thanks for this recommendation merij1!

BE
BE
1 year ago

And speaking of Kim Tae Ri, in the film Little Forest, that very sweet film, both her character (Hye-won) and the lead male, Jae Ha (Ryu Jun Yeol) are pretty nice young people, albeit Jae Ha even nicer than Hye-won.

And in his early film, Christmas in August, Han Seok Kyu as the man in his forties afflicted with a fatal disease, without being bathetic or pathetic in the least, portrays a decent, humane everyman spirit living out his days kindly and without fanfare.

BE
BE
1 year ago

The two sageuks marking the end of 19th C/beginning of 20th, while not exactly having nice guy lead couples, still…:

in Nokdu Flower concerned with the Donghak rebellion and initial phases of the Japanese colonialism, Baek Yi Kang (Jo Jung Suk) begins the story as a local thug enforcer but is transformed by his relationship to Donghak leader Jeon Bong Jun (the great Choi Moo Sung) and his love for merchant Song Ja In (Han Ye Ri). She too is morally compromised at times in the telling, but both are fundamentally good, humane, while strong and independent, and in their own ways heroic characters, who are also fundamentally good to one another.

In Mr. Sunshine, Lee Byung Hun’s character Eugene Choi, is so virtuous in all his behavior, especially with regard to his paramour, Ae Shin (Kim Tae Ri), and not even speaking of his final scene (SPOILER) is willing to go so far in her behalf than he allows himself to be put in the crosshairs of an assassination at her hands for her benefit and the benefit of her cause. Ae Shin, has a quality of steely cruelty and ruthlessness to her it is true, and that quality along with her selfless caring for the people of her nation, is what makes her a kind of folk hero character, so the overall “nice” quotient might take a hit. But sageuks have far different character requirements, as they are by nature about living through violence and crisis demanding heroic behavior in the face of such. Though they may contain comedic elements, and as well usually have romantic beats, their characters’ “nice” quotient often not the same as those in rom coms or even contemporary melodrama.

reaper525
reaper525
1 year ago
Reply to  BE

Well I fell like we have to leave Sageuks out of this one bc different times require different measures.

But I am also someone that avoids Sageuks. I am not a big fan of korean historical dramas. Which is kind of weird because I am a european medieval super fan. Maybe because in Sageuks there are always these two faced people and ten different intrigues going on ^^

BE
BE
1 year ago
Reply to  reaper525

Well these two are a little different than early Joseon Empire Sageuks, albeit there is some court intrigue in both. I tend to view court intrigue and revenge court intrigue (and strangely also some Korean romantic comedy) from the lens of loving Shakespeare. I have to say living where I do, albeit having watched political shenanigans all my life, lately has seemed to put Korean melodramatic court intrigue, even the villainy, more into perspective. People in my own national political reality appearing ruthlessly cunning and two faced, characters that really get me frustrated and angry, as well as affect the lives of people I know, many whom I love, well, the south Korean dramatic writers seem to have a handle on those kinds of individuals. And at the same time they tend to show that even good people in crises can act badly, people we consider not so savory, can act heroically. I like that.

And yet, it would be difficult to call Eugene Choi anything less than beyond nice.

Sarah
Sarah
1 year ago

I never thought I’d recommend Lee Min Ho, but I thoroughly enjoyed his character in “The King: Eternal Monarch.” The rest of the show may be overdone, but Lee Gon was never anything but kind to the woman he loved, even when she was more than pushy.

And when it came to his Kingdom, he was fair but also meted our justice to those who deserved it. All while juggling his love life. So I recommend The King.

Timescout
1 year ago

Hmmmm… interesting. I feel that it pretty much comes down to what your perceive as a “nice” character. Even looking at the comments it tends to vary a bit from person to person. I guess reaper525 didn’t mean “nice” as a personality trait but rather a character that appels to him in some way. Could have got that wrong of course. 😀

My take on “nice” is the, shall we say, traditional one. A person who is a decent human being, who strives for good but like all of us have their own personal quirks and flaws. If the overall impression is a positive one, a character can be construed as “nice”. I feel that when it comes to females, kdramas often have odd ideas about “nice” or “strong” characters. Being a wimpy doormat doesn’t make you “nice” and shouty, obnoxious and/or occasionally violent doesn’t mean “strong” either. But that’s just how I see it. 😉

reaper525
reaper525
1 year ago
Reply to  Timescout

You got that right. I see it the same way.

beez
1 year ago
Reply to  reaper525

@Reaper – everybody pause…. wait for it.. I totally agree with you! 😆 I’m not liking too much of anybody these days. I tried a new daily last week. I’m not looking for greatness in the dailies just something to watch as I have my morning tea – I could not stand ANY, not one, of the main cast (and in dailies the main cast can be quite big). They simply aren’t nice! The one character whom we’re supposed to root for woke up late, saw her step mom’s delivery truck, running with the keys in it and so she decided to take the truck, despite knowing that step mom was in the middle of loading the truck for deliveries and her business would suffer when she didn’t meet her obligations to her customers. A real stinker! After that, I didn’t care all about the main girl’s situation. And the rest of the cast aren’t nice either. There has to be at least one character I can get behind and root for.

But I am watching My Sweet Family. A drama about gangsters and I’m finding the two main characters, a husband and wife pair, absolutely delightful! And yes, I think they’re “nice”. Although I’m sure the people that the husband had to string up on fishing line and dunk in the river until they talked wouldn’t think so… 😖 I’m on episode 6 and so far I’m loving this couple’s supportive relationship.

reaper525
reaper525
1 year ago
Reply to  beez

WOW we agree on something 😀
Uff that drama sounds like a drag….

About my sweet family (is it my sweet and sour family?): I already know that your viewing pleasure are a little weird sooo …. 😀 But I just watched some snippets on YT… I have to say the mom is very obnoxious.

beez
1 year ago
Reply to  reaper525

@reaper – Yes, that’s it. Aka My Sweet And Sour Family. The mom is amazing! lol Well, how long could you and I being on the same page last…? 😆

reaper525
reaper525
1 year ago
Reply to  beez

Well it was just a second but at least longer than I and kfangurl 😀

Sharra
Sharra
1 year ago

Really interesting post and question. Similar to Sean I take characters as I find them. I don’t mind if they are flawed, difficult or fiesty. I even find the pettiness(within reason funny at times) as they are all human characteristics and I find the story is more compelling if the character has flaws. I like to see personal growth and there isn’t much to see if the character s are perfect in the first place.

And yay I watched over half of these on your list and would agree they are positive leads. Another shout-out for the ML in My Mister as bizarrely I was thinking about that character yesterday! A decent man caught up in some terrible circumstances. None of his own making. Also perhaps a shout out for Second 20s?. I know the FL makes questionable choices but haven’t we all? And I know the ML is grumpy but actions speaking louder than words as he spent decades providing support albeit secretively.

Carulhein
Carulhein
1 year ago

Hi Kfangurl, I must say I can’t think of any drama off the top of my head where I didn’t, in the end, find the leads to be nice. I do know, with Start-up there is a humongous ship war going on with the male leads. I know you’re pretty much at the beginning of the show, so I won’t go into detail, but I think how the writer structured the show, telling the 2nd male lead’s heartbreaking story first, endeared people so much to him that, in my opinion, irrationally, they could not find anything the first male lead did appealing. So, yes, I do think it comes down to our own personal feelings towards the character. I’m probably a little biased myself as NJH in WFKBJ is probably my favourite male lead of all time 😄

BE
BE
1 year ago
Reply to  Carulhein

I tend to agree. Even the antiheroes often end up being pretty good guys.

reaper525
reaper525
1 year ago

First of all I feel honored that you answered my question or better complaint ^^

My take on this one is:
What I mean with nice is somebody that doesn’t emotionaly explode because of everything.
ML talks to another girl…. boom FL goes crazy.
Something bad happens -> FL runs in….needs help -> same situation occurs 5 mins later… she does it again.

And also what I consider as nice is a non violent person.
I mean I get it …”uhhh this guy only likes when guys fight…” No I don’t but when guys fight I can blame it on testosterone and if they act stupid I can blame it on uga buga cavemen DNA. But yes I also have judgy side. Physically strong/violent women are about as attractive as a chair.

And the complete role reversal that happens these days just shows how completely wrong they are about men.
Of course women are not display in dramas the way they actually are and think but I am a dude so it is easier for me to indentify with the men.

From the ones you mentioned the leads in Put your head on my shoulder, private life and Do you like Brahms.

I haven’t watched most of the dramas you mentioned. But you rated Weightlifting fairy Kim Bok Joo with an 8.
But my take on her is a little different. Whenever she encounters a problem she uses strength or violence instead of her brain. Her treatment towards the ML especially in the beginning seems a bit abusive. He is always super nice to her but she kind of mistreats him. When he does soemthing wrong she always threatens to hit him (can’t remember if she actually does) but even just a threat can be consider mental abuse. Always imagine it the other way round and think about it again.

As a last question I want to ask why there is such a big difference between th display of a strong man and a strong woman?
A strong man is usually calm, collected, eloquent and smart but also arrogant and cold.
A strong woman is usually bitchy, violent, rude, in yo face and successful.

Maybe gives of the wrong picture to the world?

Carulhein
Carulhein
1 year ago
Reply to  reaper525

I agree with you about female leads being borderline ‘abusive’ towards male leads. Into the ring is a good example. Even though I liked the show, every time the female lead hit the ML I kind of cringed. Was it supposed to be endearing? I don’t know. I didn’t find it so 😃

BE
BE
1 year ago
Reply to  reaper525

A couple of thoughts on what I infer. First of all, it strikes me, for good and ill, South Korean people are presented as physical yet somewhat inhibited when it comes to at least public displays of romantic physicality. Indeed some of what to a contemporary European or American sensibility might appear abusive derives from a need for such expression. Unlike how other Asian cultures are depicted in the west, both men and women are presented as exceedingly emotional. Over and over men are depicted howling and crying their eyes out from grief, for example.
Now, as an aside, the ethnic subculture, from which I come, demanded that as a kid, at the dinner table, I participate in an emotional, loud, opinionated debate about any and everything with the rest of my family, parents included. That did not mean I got my way or that other points of view were not given weight, but if I did not speak up and even get worked up, my older sister, my mother, and my father would all query about my health. I come from what appears to be a quarrelsome lot, and a noisy one to boot. I found that in my professional life folks from what was a mainstream culture took far more offense at my behavior than I ever intended, and an assumption that I was closed minded, even when I knew good and well, I was far broad minded and willing to accept them in their particular quirks than they were with me.

My ex wife, grew up in a culture, where while men ruled the roost in public and in bottom line decision making. In the home men were silent as the dead, the women chatty, without question owning that domain and when it came to children bore entire responsibility and authority with out so much as a question allowed. I came from a culture in which men and women made decisions together, and in the home, everyone talked, both genders, adults and kids having a say. Men in my family structure participated as much in chlld rearing as women. Our marriage was impossible.

One of the interesting things for me about how South Korean drama presents culture is this kind of retro double vision I get by how the over society puts such limits and gender expectations on women, while the women characters, leads, often appear both strong and capable of both emotionally and physically abusive behavior. Indeed, the issue of how strong women have to deal in what appears to be at least slightly a misogynistic over culture, is interesting to me, because we largely are in a period where similar impulses in America at least are either whitewashed or exaggerated, rather than presented in human terms. How men and women negotiate relationships in such a culture.

I love Dong Hoon in My Mister, but it does not take rocket science to figure out why his wife is so dissatisfied, and some of that is hinted at by his character’s mother speaking to his sense of emasculation as a result of his wife’s success. He is almost saintly, and yet I would argue not one woman here would want him for a husband. And in his case, this has to do with how that society’s corporate structure affects men–think of almost all the men in the drama.

All this goes back also to the whole issue of language, not so much in terms of gender, but exists in that light in at least terms of real distinction, how deeply embedded hierarchies of social interaction exist.

An older drama I just watched, Reply 1988, depicts super nice older couples, in which while all expressing amazing depths of loving feeling, also quite often depicts the women hitting and yelling at their men. One of the family fathers is a gruff alcholic for part of the drama as a result of being in debt and worn down by his job. His older daughter suffers from his inability to talk with her. She too is pretty rough edged. And yet, they love each other so much. That is, it depicts marriages and families that anyone ought to envy, so deep and caring, but at the same time ones in which the behavior those of us not in that culture might consider abusive in our own lives.

reaper525
reaper525
1 year ago
Reply to  BE

Yes koreans are usually presented as physical but so are Germans. Even tho it is not the case.
It is also true that koreans are presented as very emotional.
But a German Guy crying in Germany 10-20 years ago that would be considered a myth. Only in the past view years it started to change a bit.

Your background is quite interesting. Kids talking about adult topics? Definitley not here. It feels like every topic has a certain age requirement here.
If somebody acts like (the way you described it) that outside I understand that people got somewhat offended by this behaviour. Your intentention behind what you say is irrelevant to others. The way they preseve your actions and words is what matters.

I am sorry to hear that your marriage didn’t work out.

Doesn’t the korean culture also put high expectations on men? Good, stable job. kind character, money, health. It is pretty much everything a woman is limited in. And if the list of limits for women is so high wouldn’t that mean the list of requirements for men is long?

Doesn’t Dong Hoon only act like the way he does because he knows she is cheating? It always takes two in a relationship. And her pretentious behaviour towards him doesn’t make him feel any better.

All over the world the man has to be the breadwinner. If he is not than he is immediately a loser and useless. As soon as there is a comparison between a man and a woman the only thing that suffers is the mans’ pride.

There is still a big amount of double standards when talking about men and women.

BE
BE
1 year ago
Reply to  reaper525

Well I think Yoon Hee makes a pretty good case about how neglected she felt before the affair began.
I have never lived in South Korea and can only see it through the reflected lens of their popular arts culture, so I cannot accurately speak to any of it. All I was saying is that it is very hard for someone living in one circumstance to accurately understand behaviors of people living in an entirely different set of circumstances. But I am interested in rather than necessarily irritated by how South Korean drama depicts heterosexual relationships because on one hand it is treated so honestly in ways that the quick default to sex in American drama elides so much of the confusion and miscommunication along the path to really hooking up and having a relationship, not to mention its presentation of marriages where noisy arguing and physicality sure seems preferable to distant silences. And of course, My Mister, which just as easily could have been called beautiful losers, depicts the problems for men, especially older men, including the idea that being a janitor is somehow a shameful occupation in which even a very bad actress would still command higher prestige.

Of course it would be wonderful to have grown old with a long life companion of the heart, but seriously my marriage ended something like forty years ago, so water under the bridge on that account. We are like friendly in laws these days. We have two spectacular daughters and a spectacular granddaughter, and we each have made more than our share of mistakes, and been at other times exemplary parents, so… the reason I brought this up is that I live in a multicultural society driven towards crosscultural hybridization. Sometimes that works out, but on the other hand, I had never seen a dinner table like that of my exwife’s family where none of the men participated in family discussions, and once I did I had an inkling as why she was so frustrated by her talky husband.

Which is to say, like Sean, I take these dramas as they come to me, and like many, even when I find the behavior provocative. In the first episode of Secret Love Affair, one of my all time faves, I was shocked at the extreme violence that went on between the ultra wealthy daughter and ultra wealthy second wife of a cheobol family, and the violence with which that daughter also treated a life long friend and adviser. I mean it was shocking. But in the context of the drama and conflict facing the lead female coming to grips with herself in the middle of her life, whether it was just a plot device or reflective of the bad behavior of wealthy people, it seemed to feel real.

reaper525
reaper525
1 year ago
Reply to  BE

Well we are on the same page. I am also intruiged by the way korean dramas present us relationships. But there are limits to everything. With a lot more depth than american shows do.

Secret Love Affair was great but I nearly dropped it because of the first episode… that was just…

At first I also take the dramas as they come. But I don’t go outside and become friends with each person I meet. There are likable ones and people I would like to avoid. Same rules go for dramas with me. When I see a character I really dislike and it doesn’t change over several episodes why keep watching?

beez
1 year ago
Reply to  reaper525

@reaper @BE – I don’t think the man tears that we see all the time in Korean dramas is very accurate. At least not among the Korean men of my past acquaintance. Then again, I wasn’t privy to their personal lives as far as love nor death of loved ones, etc.

There was an article that addressed the constant man tears in Kdrama, and it stated that it was viewed as the epitome of acting skills and that’s why it is utilized so often. I’ll try to find the article and add it to the thread if I do.

beez
1 year ago
Reply to  BE

@BE – my son asked me a couple of weeks ago if Korean society oppressed women. My answer was “yes, but…” I mentioned how they’ve had a female president BUT that’s like people from other countries thinking America no longer deals with racism because we had a black president.

So my short answer was “South Korea is a male dominated society but they don’t wear their shoes in the house.” He instantly understood the weight that women must carry in the home at least. 😆

BE
BE
1 year ago
Reply to  beez

I should reiterate I have no ideas at all about what life is like in South Korea, especially living in a small town covid year isolation. But one cannot help but notice how in popular entertainment culture gender roles, norms, and expectations are presented especially ways in which they are presented differently than here. The issue of women in society and historic misogyny appears to exist in almost all the foreign drama that I have seen or pulp fiction genres I have read. But where each different culture is on the movement to human rights for all is another story, and how these tensions affect relationships, romantic, familial, work place and so on, is interesting to us all. I would imagine that in South Korea with its advancing democracy, generally over time improving economy, and its hook into world culture, attitudes about human rights for all people are in flux, three steps forward, two steps back as they are here. But here, now that we have a woman Vice President, we can all assume that folks will say, what men are treated equally in the US, missing a more fundamental, messy, complicated, confused and confusing reality.

Natalia
Natalia
1 year ago
Reply to  BE

Guys, there has been a woman president/prime minister in countries like Turkey or Pakistan, a female head of government is not really representative of women’s position in a particular society.

BE
BE
1 year ago
Reply to  Natalia

Of course, I was simply reflecting how after Barack Obama was elected President there were large swaths of people who claimed America was beyond racism. And now that we have elected for the first time in our history a woman as Vice President, there well be those who make the same claim for women.

reaper525
reaper525
1 year ago
Reply to  BE

Well I have to I live in Germany and our head politician is a woman for the past 8 years and there are exactly two camps the ones that love her and the ones that hate her. The thing the longer her reign goes the more people start thinking that women are not very suitable as politicians.
I am just stating that a certain president can also have an opposite effect.

beez
1 year ago