Welcome to the Open Thread, everyone! I’ve got this shot headlining our post today, because I do love the sweet angst of the scene. Yes, in this case at least, I do seem to be a sucker for punishment, heh. 😁
SOME IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENTS, before we begin:
ZERO SPOILER POLICY
1. We will be adopting a ZERO SPOILER POLICY for this Open Thread, except for events that have happened in the show, up to this point.
We don’t want to spoil anyone’s watch experience with spoilers. The spoiler tags don’t work in email notifications, therefore, please take note that WE WILL NOT BE USING SPOILER TAGS FOR THIS OPEN THREAD. ANY AND ALL SPOILERS WILL BE REDACTED to protect first-time viewers in our midst (although, I’d appreciate it if you would save me the trouble of having to redact spoilers, heh 😅).
This includes, but is not limited to, how characters &/or relationships develop, later in the show.
We need to protect the innocent! 😉
2. HOWEVER!! If you’d like to discuss spoilers from a rewatcher’s point of view, I’ve created a SPOILER ZONE for you, where you can discuss all the spoilers you’d like, without the need for spoiler warnings. You can find it here!
Without further ado, here are my reactions to this set of episodes; have fun in the Open Thread, everyone! ❤️
Oh man. This episode, Sabu steps in to save Jung Hoo, and ends up sacrificing his life, in order to do so. Gurgle. I did not see that coming. 😭😭 This is not ok. I am not ok. 😩
I find Sabu such a paradox. Sometimes, he comes across as heartless and cruel, like in the way he’d left Jung Hoo on his birthday, without so much as a heads-up. But at other times, he puts his entire life on the line, for those he cares about.
He put his life on hold for years, while taking care of Jung Hoo, and getting him ready to face life on his own. That’s pretty huge, even though his manner in doing so, was gruff and tough.
And then this episode, he put his life on the line, when he tells Moon Sik that he is going to protect the baby bears (namely, Jung Hoo and Young Shin), because he’s the friend of the papa bears.
I feel like Sabu had an inkling that it would be dangerous to pit himself against Moon Sik, since, as he points out, Moon Sik’s killed at least two people, and those two people had been his friends.
I feel like Sabu knew that there was risk, that by making a stand that he would protect the baby bears, that Moon Sik would make that 3 friends, instead of 2.
Still, it’s utterly tragic to see Sabu realize that he’s been poisoned, and then make the split decision to roll with it, by using whatever time he had left, to confess to being Healer, and giving Detective Yoon information about the last job that Healer had done for Moon Sik.
Gah. Was there no chance of Sabu surviving the poison, if he’d chosen to get help? Hrm..
Perhaps not.. I guess Secretary Oh’s hired assassin dude would have put a lethal dose in Sabu’s soup, in order to ensure that it would be effective, even if Sabu didn’t eat the whole bowl.
And, I’m guessing that Sabu knew enough, to know that it would have been pointless to get help, and had calculated, in that split second, that the best use of his remaining time, would be to protect Jung Hoo to the maximum.
AUGH. TEARS. 😭😭
Through this whole thing, I can’t help but be struck by the fact that Ahjumma had complete faith in Sabu to get out of there unscathed. Even when Jung Hoo had asked if he should go in there and get Sabu out, she’d stopped him.
..Is this an example of our good guys underestimating our bad guys?
Speaking of whom, I actually wonder if Moon Sik really gave the order to get rid of Sabu. Would he really be that heartless? Or, could it have been another one of Secretary Oh’s, er, proactive ideas?
However, from the way Moon Sik reacts darkly to Myung Hee pulling away from him and refusing to take her medicine, and the way he decides to break that glass, almost as if to see what it feels like, to destroy something, it makes me think that it’s Moon Sik who’d ordered Sabu’s poisoning. Gah.
Another thing that strikes me this episode, which I really didn’t give a lot of thought to in my previous watches, is the whole thing about Jung Hoo’s mom’s remarriage.
I’d always assumed that Mom had left Jung Hoo in order to remarry, with the added catalyst of Moon Sik’s threat adding pressure on her to not keep in active touch with Jung Hoo.
And this episode, we do see some of that coming into play, where Mom nervously tells Secretary Oh that she hasn’t been in touch with Jung Hoo for years.
What I don’t really get, is the flashback where teenaged Jung Hoo had gone to see Mom, and Mom had cried a lot, and then Mom’s new husband had apologized to Jung Hoo, saying that Mom had been unwilling to remarry, but he’d forced the matter.
I don’t.. get that?
The way New Husband plays it, it’s as if it’s his fault that Jung Hoo’s separated from Mom. But.. if that’s true, then why hadn’t New Husband told Mom that she could bring Jung Hoo with her, to make a new family with him?
I mean, I know it’s reasonably common for mothers to leave their children from their first marriage behind when remarrying, but there are also cases where they take their children with them (see Five Enough, as an example).
So, if New Husband had been so adamant, and Mom had been so unwilling, why hadn’t they taken Jung Hoo in? If not at the point of remarriage, they could have done so at the point when teenaged Jung Hoo had shown up? He didn’t have to walk away on his own?
I know, I know. It’s all in service of our story, because if teenaged Jung Hoo hadn’t been on his own, he wouldn’t have become Healer, and we would have no story. Still, narratively speaking, I did feel like this was kind of weak.
More important than either of those things, though, is the fact that this episode, Young Shin figures it all out. Now she knows that Bong Soo is Healer and Healer is Bong Soo, and that is so important and momentous. Ahhh!!
I love that we can see the gears in her head churning, as she turns over each piece of information in her head.
There are so many things that give her pause: the doctor saying that Bong Soo’s very muscular, so the laceration isn’t very deep; the way Bong Soo grips her hand, which reminds her of the way Healer had gripped her wrist, back at the movie theater.
The way Bong Soo had known that she needed two pills, to help with her anxiety, which is something that she’d told Healer; the fact that Bong Soo has that paper star that she’d folded, in a case in his car.
It all comes together in one big confronting conclusion, that Bong Soo is really Healer in disguise.
Even as I get a thrill from the fact that Young Shin does kinda-sorta know Healer by his hand, what I appreciate more, is how she processes this new realization.
In a fairytale sort of world, Young Shin might go starry-eyed at the thought that Healer, the person whom she likes so much, is right there next to her.
But in this drama world, Young Shin angsts over how Bong Soo’s lied to her from the start, and yet, she can’t confront him about it, because the moment she lets on that she knows, she’s afraid that he’ll leave and she’ll never see him again.
Guh. That feels so REAL, y’all.
That emotional reaction, which vibes so nuanced and realistic, is the thing that lends weight to this (on paper) manhwa-esque romance, between a girl and a mysterious superhero-esque night courier.
I do love that she has Dad to talk to, and that Dad manages to console her so well, with a hug and warm milk, and a listening ear.
That beat, where Dad talks about waiting for Young Shin to come to him first, at the orphanage, strikes me as good food for thought for Young Shin. It didn’t occur to me in previous watches, but now, I’m thinking that that’s good advice for Young Shin, to use with Healer.
Wait, and let him come to her first.
The way Young Shin proceeds to studiously avoid eye contact with Bong Soo at work, feels so relatable to me. I feel like if I were in her shoes, I’d find it hard to look Bong Soo in the eye as well.
After all, now she knows his secret, and she doesn’t really know what to do about it. She’s feeling so conflicted about it. She wants to talk with him about it, but she’s afraid that she’ll end up driving him away. I totally get her avoidance.
At the same time, the way that avoidance lands with Jung Hoo, is low-key amusing. I mean, his angst is written all over his face. The more Young Shin acts normal around him, while avoiding eye contact with him, the angstier he gets.
I kinda love it. I can’t deny that it’s a little bit fun, to see Jung Hoo be so antsy. 😅
At the same time, I really did love the conversation that Young Shin and Jung Hoo have at the cafe that night.
(Also, I don’t know what it is, but now that Young Shin knows that Bong Soo is Healer, Bong Soo starts looking really large to me, onscreen. It’s as if I’m suddenly noticing how broad his shoulders are, and how tiny Young Shin looks, next to him.
It’s perfect, but also, quite curious. How did they do that?)
The way Jung Hoo immediately says that he wants to change his choice, when he hears that if he’d picked “West,” Young Shin would’ve hugged him for 10 seconds, is so cute.
He really is turning out to be a very tactile sort of person. I feel like his love language is probably touch, and he’s been so starved of it all these years, that now that he loves Young Shin, he just can’t get enough of any sort of touch, when it comes to her.
The way the conversation turns into them talking in code, kind of thrills me. It’s definitely a case of “I know that you know that I know, but let’s not talk about that” sort of a thing.
Out of the entire conversation, I liked most, the bit where he tells her that there must be a reason that Healer isn’t coming, and she agrees, but says that Healer’s still a jerk – and Jung Hoo mumbles his agreement. Heh.
I do love that they manage to come to some sort of understanding, even without directly addressing the elephant in the room.
Last but not least, though, I’m kind of worried for Jung Hoo, as he realizes Sabu’s fate, upon making his way to the police station the next day.
That has got to be the most horrible thing, for Jung Hoo. Not only is this Sabu, the father figure whom he has a love-hate relationship with, it’s gotta hit really hard, that Sabu was only in this position, because he’d taken Jung Hoo’s place, in order to save him.
I honestly worry for Jung Hoo, coz this is such a huge blow to him. Because if I’m not ok, how could Jung Hoo possibly be ok? 😩💔
As expected, Jung Hoo is NOT ok this episode, and man, it really hurt to see him struggle. My heart went out to him, so much. 🥺
From the very beginning, Show’s introduced Jung Hoo to us as someone who’s more animalistic than human, in some ways, and this episode, as Dae Yong and that group of guys (whom I can only assume to be colleagues that I never knew Healer had) try and fail to stop him, that animalistic quality of Jung Hoo’s really comes through.
In this moment, he vibes somewhat like a wounded leopard, to my eyes; angry, hurting, weakened, confused, and anxious.
From the moment Jung Hoo realizes that it’s Sabu on that stretcher, and that something’s happened, and Sabu didn’t make it, he’s basically so beside himself that he’s out of control. No one can talk him down from his wild need to do something – not even himself.
It feels like his mind is going everywhere.
From needing to see Sabu’s body for himself, to wanting to confront Moon Sik and just kill him, it feels like Jung Hoo’s moving in a blind rage, kinda like a grizzly bear in attack mode, swiping at annoying nuisances with his giant paw – and probably hurting people more than he expects to.
While it’s not nice to see Jung Hoo just kick and incapacitate anyone who gets in his way of getting to Sabu’s body, I rationalize that he’s not thinking very straight – or at all – right now. He’s just overcome by so much anguish, grief and bewilderment, at what’s just happened.
And with his baser, animalistic instincts at the reins, and with him in possession of so much skill and physical power, it’s understandable – though still not great – to see him act in this way.
It’s actually really poignant to see that mixed in with all his grief, is regret. That scene, where Jung Hoo cries in front of Moon Ho, and bemoans the fact that he’d been so busy feeling angry at Sabu, that he hadn’t even eaten a meal with him, is so heartbreaking.
Augh. I really feel for Jung Hoo.
There’s got to be so much guilt at play in him, because what he said is true; he’s the one who’d demanded Sabu to appear, and he’s the reason Sabu had returned. In his shoes, it’d be hard not to engage in self-blame, for asking Sabu to return in the first place.
This episode, we also get Ahjumma’s backstory, and it’s such a tragic one.
From a bystander’s point of view, it’s easy to say that she should have forsaken her work in order to care for her child, but as with most things, I’m sure it’s a lot more complicated from where she’s standing.
As a cyber detective, she probably felt a great deal of responsibility, to bring cyber criminals to justice. And I’m sure that as a mom, she did want to be with her child.
I’m sure she felt extremely conflicted, having to choose between one or the other, since both likely felt important.
I’m also guessing that she probably felt helpless in her child’s situation, where she couldn’t actively do anything to improve his chances for recovery, whereas, with work, she at least felt like there was something that she could do, and she at least felt some measure of control.
It reminds me of how Jung Hoo demands that Moon Ho tell him something that he can do, right away, instead of just wait. In the midst of his agony, Jung Hoo felt that it would have helped him, to be able to do something.
I’m extending that thought to Ahjumma, and imagining that, perhaps, when her child was so sick in the hospital and she felt most helpless, it gave her a small measure of consolation, to focus herself on something where she felt she had some control.
Of course, that all falls apart, and not only does her son die, the case that she’d sacrificed her personal life for, gets covered up. It’s a completely debilitating situation, and I can see why Ahjumma would have withdrawn to live the hermit life, as she does now.
Augh. I can only imagine how much regret still lingers with Ahjumma, when she thinks upon her son. 😭
It makes me wonder whether Ahjumma kind of treats Jung Hoo like a son – even though she denies it vehemently, when Young Shin asks about it, later in the episode.
The way Ahjumma’s protective over Jung Hoo, underneath her gruff and prickly exterior, definitely makes me feel that she’s got a motherly soft spot for him.
That’s.. precious, especially considering how Jung Hoo doesn’t really have a true mother figure in his life, given his very pared down relationship with his mom.
I’m glad that Ahjumma succeeds in her hacking showdown with Detective Yoon and his team, and manages to get a copy of Sabu’s final video, from the interrogation room, to Jung Hoo.
And, I’m glad too, that even though it means turning her business upside down, she is quick to want to honor Sabu’s final wish, which is that Jung Hoo retire early as Healer, and live a normal life with the woman whom he loves.
At the same time, I can see why Jung Hoo would be so adamant, about keeping Young Shin at arm’s length. With all that’s happened, I can understand why he would feel that being around him would be dangerous for anyone.
With that thought center of mind, I can see why Jung Hoo would choose to just sleep. When your world comes crashing down, it’s a very natural instinct, to want to withdraw from it all.
I don’t think Jung Hoo himself has any idea how long he wants to withdraw from it all; I believe that he doesn’t think that far. All he knows, is that he can’t do anything, and can’t afford to let anyone near, and the best thing to do, is just bury himself and sleep it all away.
In the meantime, I appreciate that we get to see how Young Shin’s attitude towards Jung Hoo’s disappearance evolves as the days go by.
From being casual and noncommittal, she gets angry and belligerent – and then she becomes pensive and tentative, wondering if the reason Jung Hoo’s staying away, is because of something she’d done or said.
That evolution of feeling makes so much sense, and I love how that also gives us a sense of how time is passing, even as Jung Hoo continues to sleep.
I also appreciate that while Young Shin’s feeling all these feelings, she’s continuing to do things, on the work front. She’s still actively working on the feature on Moon Sik, and she even manages to make a positive impression on Myung Hee, whom she wants to interview.
I like that detail, that Young Shin cares deeply about Healer, but isn’t paralyzed by her feelings, even when he’s off the grid and she’s very concerned.
It makes so much sense to me, that when Ahjumma’s worried enough for Jung Hoo, to send someone to his place to check on him, she chooses Young Shin.
What Ahjumma says is true; Young Shin basically stands the highest chance of drawing Healer out of his lair.
That moment, when Young Shin understands what Ahjumma is saying, and her eyes immediately fill with anxious, fearful tears, is so touching, really.
When Ahjumma says that she needed to see Young Shin’s eyes, I completely understand what she means. Ahjumma had wanted to verify for herself, that Young Shin cares as much for Jung Hoo, as Jung Hoo cares about her. And those tears say it all. 🥲
I do love that Young Shin’s dark-side skills, which she’s picked up from all her con-artist ahjusshi friends, now come in useful, as she tracks Jung Hoo’s location, and works to find the entrance to his cave.
It makes me think that this must be the key reason that writer-nim made Dad a lawyer with lots of ex-cons in his vicinity in the first place. Young Shin needed to have those skills taught to her from a young age, for such a time as this. I do love the forward planning, heh. 😁
It’s honestly kinda surreal to see Young Shin in Healer’s lair like this, so it makes perfect sense to me, that when Jung Hoo opens his eyes, his first reaction is a groggy assumption that he’s dreaming.
I love that Young Shin’s first instinct is to care for Jung Hoo, from cradling him in her arms to warm him up, to cooking him a warm meal. That feels so needful for Jung Hoo, right now. The way he curls up so instinctively in Young Shin’s arms, is heart-pinching yet lovely, at the same time.
At the same time, I completely believe that because Jung Hoo cares about Young Shin’s safety, he pushes her away all the more – even though he does love her, and even though I’m sure he actually wants to spend time with her.
The experience of losing Sabu has caused a deep wound in Jung Hoo, and I totally believe that he thinks pushing Young Shin away from himself, is the best way to keep her safe.
I love that Young Shin somehow senses that there’s more going on with Jung Hoo than he lets on, and I love that she refuses to allow his brusque words to push her away.
I do love that the thing that finally manages to crack Jung Hoo’s resolve, is Young Shin’s gentle request, that he not send her away.
I love that even though Young Shin resists Jung Hoo’s efforts to lead her away from him, she responds with a persistence that is heavily flavored with gentleness.
The way she draws him into a hug, and plaintively asks him not to send her away, finally breaks down Jung Hoo’s defenses, and it is really poignant, to see him break down in tears like that.
It feels like those tears are coming from a deep, dark, unspoken place, and I’m glad that Young Shin’s there to just hold him.
I love how tenderly she wipes away his tears with her fingers, and then kisses him. Without words, she’s showing him that she accepts him, just as he is, and loves him, just as he is. Ahhhh. It’s all so very heady and swoony.
Melt. Flail. Swoon. ❤️
@everybody here – so now that so many differing points of view are on the table, I almost feel the need to rewatch up to this point to see if I’ll change my opinion or if I see the things you guys have pointed out. Since I don’t have time for that right now, I guess I’ll have to make a list of those things that stand out to me and refer to it during my next rewatch. (Yes, I will be rewatching – yet again – but maybe next year around this time.)
wey, as the koreans like to say (or that’s how it sounds to me). so i have 2 questions or observations or whatever you want to call it.
at the beginning of ep 13 ys is bitterly crying to her father that “this man” lied to her all the time and that is most upsetting to her. but what i do not understand, is that she already knows (or suspects) the true identity of healer, she knows he is extremely secretive, she understands and accepts that she was not allowed to even see his face, so how does she expects him to just tell her the “truth”??? what truth? she knows ALL the limitations, so what was that about – the tears about lying.
another scene that is kind of confusing to me – teacher comes to visit moon shik and myung hee after he comes out of prison, meaning 10-12 years later. so first of all, i am surprised that more than 10 years passed and they all still look exactly the same as in the junk-yard, they did not age at all (lucky them) especially moon shik. it looks like it is a hospital bed in a hospital room. was she asleep for more than 10 years? later on we learn she was in the hospital for one year. so where does this scene fit in the story? is it another case of lazy writing?
Eda, beez and I were just talking about the timing over in the spoiler zone…Teacher went to prison in 1982, while everyone else was still living their lives. I can’t remember why he went to jail. But then, 11 years later, in 1993, he got out of jail and went to visit Moon Shik and Myung Hee in the hospital. By then, the incident had happened a year prior in 1992. So Myung Hee had been asleep for a year. Jung Hoo and Ji An were born in 1987, since they were 5 years old in 1992. Wikipedia told me all of these latter details 🙂 .
To sum up:
1982 – Teacher goes to jail
1987 – Jung Hoo and Ji An are born
1992 – The incident and Myung Hee’s accident
1993 – Teacher gets out of jail and visits Myung Hee and Moon Shik
I’m curious where in this timeline Teacher went and found teenage Healer and started living with him.
You’re right – no one aged! Except Moon Ho – he went from being a younger kid in the back of the reporters’ truck, to being a teenager in 1992 who took care of young Ji An and Jung Hoo in his bedroom. (That sounds weird, but you know what I mean!)
I guess Teacher must have been arrested and convicted for journalistic crimes back in 1982, but everyone else went undiscovered?
sweetroad, I’m curious where in this timeline Teacher went and found teenage Healer and started living with him.
wow, you are opening another pandora box, i guess it is after all “a korean drama”, although way better than many others , but still has those non-logic, non- sense, why, how come, where did the time go, where did this or that disappeared into the thin air and so on, so typical of drama land. what else can i say, we still did not resolve the issue of the mother and the teacher. and as you said, now we are resorting to psychoanalyses of the writer. (last ditch effort)
I hope you guys know that I wasn’t really serious when I wrote about the writer’s parents.
But maybe we should be.
there is truth in every joke, but we do know, we do.
@MariaF – I had ZERO problem with it. You weren’t being insulting or anything, just extrapolating ideas that we use to analyze what we’re looking at.
sweetroad, that was a period from what i understand, that there was no freedom of press at all and they were harshly persecuted by authorities. teacher was always following the car transmitting the program prepared by the 4 other members on a bike. so may be that’s why he was captured alone, and the others were able to escape. he was a loyal guy, and did not sell out the others, like moon shik, although i am sure he was tortured no less. but for that he got the lengthy prison. moon shik was a traitor, regardless of circumstances, he probably felt some guilt and also was afraid that his friend will start asking questions about the whole ordeal, and the other 2 friends that were dead. i assume that was one reason he did not visit him in prison. but again, i am guessing.
That’s how I read things, too, Eda, that Moon Shik probably felt like he wouldn’t be able to stand up to Teacher’s scrutiny, so he never visited him in prison. I mean, it’s not like he didn’t have any time to visit….Myung Hee was sleeping 20 hours a day so he could have snuck away.
Maybe the Elder didn’t want Moon Shik to have anything to do with Teacher, either, and suggested he not visit.
Teacher said that he took the fall expecting the “Three Bears” to be fine when he got out of prison.
I’m guessing after Teacher got out of prison he went on with his life and it was only after Jung hoo’s granny died and Jung hoo got out of reform school/juvie that Teacher stepped in.
Makes sense, @beez!
It’s one thing to know that Healer is out there somewhere, being secretive and all. It’s different, when you find out that that guy has been next to you all this time, pretending to be someone else, listening to you talk about the feelings you have for him, talk about your mother, etc.
but really, what choices did he have? and given what ys knew, (and not just healer out there somewhere, but healer-guy that she’s fascinated and attracted to) that protected her, saved her life, had a movie/romantic date with her, kissed her – all in complete secret, i would expect her to have a better understanding of the whole, and not whine like a little girl that got a lollypop instead of a chocolate. i personally did not like seeing her this way. you are giving her too much credit where credit is not due, it is NOT a regular boy/girl situation, and what you say turns it into one. that’s my take on it.
I understand what you mean. I partially agree. And YS made her peace with it too. She told him she understood and that she’d wait for him.
But I also understand her emotional reaction. She was very sincere with him, telling him everything, including how she was mooning over him. It’s like an invasion of privacy. I imagine it felt a bit humiliating. Luckily, he reciprocated her feelings.
@eda – about Young shin being upset. I, myself, was like I’d be happy to find out the man I’ve been fantisizing over actually likes me too! Because she knows he likes her because of the overture he made on the rooftop. But I guess she’s upset about being lied to by Park Bong soo especially because she’s been confiding to him about her feelings for Healer! 😆 I think she’s embarrassed and feels deceived by her friend. She had to have felt very close to Bong su to tell him all the things she did about longing for Healer.
@beez, I guess she’s upset about being lied to by Park Bong soo
but again, this is under regular circumstances boy/girl interaction -lying can be brutal for a relationship, but this is far from normal, and now she knows. park bong soo is healer, who ‘s top requirement for survival is secrecy – she commented on it some time in previous episodes herself. so knowing who park bong soo is – has to settle her problem of lying. he was not lying, he is forced to keep his secret identity for now at least. this is quite different than lying. and so her tears and whining are out of place, or again the writer’s god knows what . this entire scene cheapens the development of this story (my opinion, of course).
i disagree. for me that was the only natural reaction. just because you know something has to be a certain way (i.e. healer being secretive) doesn’t mean you won’t feel a certain way about it.
also, her tears were about bong-su, not healer. as is stated early in the show, she really wanted a hoobae. and we can then see that she loves the responsibility and takes great pride in taking care of bong-su. also, she feels really comfortable with him. judging by her father’s comment, he is probably her only close friend. (and how fast did that come about.)
so while i agree with beez that she was probably embarrassed for a moment, i feel that came after the first gut-punch of betrayal and hurt. she opened herself up to him and made herself vulnerable and he lied to her all the time. that hurts, especially when you like / love that person. no matter the reasons.
i think their conversation in the cafe also makes that clear: “i’ll wait. i’ll wait, but i’m also mad. really mad.” she understands he has reasons, but that doesn’t mean she has to put her feelings on hold until he has his shit figured out. she has agency too in this situation.
when i first watched the show i, of course, was squealing just as much at their phone conversations and her confessions. but some time into the show i also found myself thinking that what jung-hoo is doing is not okay. the end doesn’t justify the means and young-shin got hurt in the process. those feelings are valid.
park min-young made me fall in love with young-shin in the hospital scene. she plays her hurt and the tears beneath the surface so beautifully. i read she was embarrased by the crying scene in the cafe, because she didn’t feel she did a good job at it. i always loved that she unabashedly ugly-cried. her pain was visceral.
as to the timeline: i feel the timeline in the past is quite consistent, as has already been pointed out above. i’m much more frustrated by the timeline in the present, which i feel doesn’t really line up.
so you say this is a case where the emotions went west, and the brain went east. ok. that happens quite often. but i give her more credit, she’s naïve but smart. she fell in love WELL AWARE OF THE SITUATION, i am sure the secrecy aspect of it even had a certain appeal, she contacted healer by email taking the initiative for a date. knowing that his image is a secret – she offered and promised to never look at him. it was completely HER choice. so, what i am saying, this did not fall on her from the sky and crushed her. one must take responsibility for one’s own actions. i feel at the moment it got a bit difficult and complicated (but it was this way all along, wasn’t it?), she forgot all her promises to healer and capitulated. this is healer now, not bong soo. and that is why it bothered me – i admired her courage, her go get it attitude, but suddenly it all went up in smoke. i felt it did not fit her character.
now, the other issue that you bring up i feel has merit, she suddenly realizes that she’s loosing her good friend, her hooabe, her position of kind of power over him. that can be painful, but that’s in a regular situation. here she’s finally getting her final desire – she’s closer than ever being with healer himself with his face openly in front of her. that should have exited her and overjoyed her. in life you loose some you gain some. what is the balance? the girl invited it into her life, and her invitation got accepted, whether by healer, fate, god, circumstances, no matter how it happened. it happened. she now has a chance to have healer. is this a reason to cry?
now, you say : that doesn’t mean she has to put her feelings on hold. o yes, she does. this is not a regular boyfriend she got herself involved with. if she loves him as she claims, she has to consider him and his situation. it’s not just “i want, i want”.
And if you ask me why I find it funny… I don’t even know. It just is!
Meg Ryan from “You’ve got mail” definitely handled the revelation better.😊
You’ve Got Mail! I love that movie! 🙂 Now there was a guy (Tom Hanks) who really had to re-do his entire image in the eyes of the woman he loved, in order to get her to even consider him.
i guess in this case we just want / expect different things from show and the characters.
just as you are obviously discontent with how it played out, i would have been really disappointed and confused if it went along the lines you described and found it really out of character and unnatural.
i do accept your characterization of differences in perceptions. bottom line, it seems that you like women in tears and falling apart (a sign of a “feminine” woman?, sensitive woman?, emotional woman?), and i like women to be strong and eat the meal they cooked up, even if it is lacking some spices that they expected to make it tastier.
I know that that’s not what you meant, but for some reason prof. Higgins’s number from My Fair Lady popped into my head:
“Can’t a woman learn to use her head?”
“Why can’t a woman behave like a man?”
And the last line of the song:
“Why can’t a woman be like me?”
What’s wrong with being sometimes emotional and sensitive anyway? Why is it always viewed as a sign of weakness? Unless you are a man. Because we want men to be sensitive and understand emotions.
Also, given her life story, if at that moment YS saw the whole situation as a some kind of bong soo’s/healer’s betrayal, it’s understandable that she reacted stronger than others would.
I think she probably didn’t even know at the time who she was really mad at: Bong Soo, Healer, or the actual person behind these personas.
And she didn’t really fall apart, did she?
i understand what you are saying, and sure we want a man or a woman be all well rounded, balanced – strong but emotional, sensitive but assertive, totally. i am not talking about that, i am talking about reactions. her reaction at that time in that situation did not sit well with me.
For me, I enjoyed Young shin’s reaction. It is not the reaction that I would’ve had but I’m down for her reaction. It keeps things interesting. Remember that Young shin has no friends so in that sense, losing Bong soo hit her hard. I disagree with those who think losing a hoobae (junior) is part of it. Not at all. That would be silly to me. I think it’s more about the things she confided to him. No one, especially women, likes for the guy to know just how head over heels they are until they know for sure the other person is just as invested. That’s embarrassing. But I think the biggest issue for Young shin is trust. Look at her reaction when she finds out Jung hoo knew about her mom. She tells Moon ho “Jung hoo is not on my side.” Whoa.
I was looking at the Secret Island web site that @zippverscluss provided (thanks zipp) and the writer stated that the reason Young shin is not active on social media is fear that her abusive foster people (they don’t deserve the title “parents”) might find her. So, even if Jung hoo just considered it part of doing a job to become Bong soo, that doesn’t change the trust violation for Young shin. There may be people going undercover for very good reasons (protecting the country, etc.), that doesn’t change how the people who become invested in some type of relationship feel once their true identity is revealed. (If it ever is. They may just disappear from their lives and we’ve just spent 15 episodes discussing how awful that is.) My point is, from Young shin’s point of view she has a lot of different emotions about this discovery.
I also didn’t have a problem with YS’ s reaction. Just let her cry a bit!
is fear that her abusive foster people (they don’t deserve the title “parents”) might find her
Why would they be even looking for her?
I have no idea why people who abuse, abuse or why they like to hunt down the people they abuse to continue abusing them, but they do. In fact, it has been noted by people who investigate these matters (police, cold psychologists) that abusers look for certain types. Usually those types are children (/people) who won’t tell for whatever reason. And as we know Young shin was very uncommunicative in her early years after “abandonment”.
That’s why I was surprised. I would’ve understood it better, if YS were either non-communicative child or an elderly.
By the way, I can’t remember: SY ran away from those abusers, correct? She wasn’t taken away from them because she was abused?
@MariaF – But Young shin was non-communicative, remember? Based on her mom’s instructions to not make a sound until she returned.
It’s not explicitly stated how she escaped her abuser, but we can assume that once she ended up in the hospital with broken ribs that’s how she ended up in the orphanage again. And that’s where Amazing Dad came into the picture.
She was. Not anymore though.
I just can’t imagine someone making efforts to find her after all these years and then risking being reported to the police (she talks, she is a journalist, and her dad is a lawyer, after all). It’s not worth the trouble.
But the abuser wouldn’t know all those things until after they locate Yong shin. And she was not much of a journalist for a “not much of a news” web page. Even Healer was incredulous of her hanging around in parking lots checking for license plates.
I meant ‘not worth the trouble harassing her after they have found her and discovered how her situation has changed.’
I realize that the writer knows best, when she explains why YS is not on the internet. But they never mention it in the show. YS always wanted to become famous. How was she going to do that and hide from the abusers at the same time?
But it’s not a big deal.
@MariaF – well the way my brain processed what the writer said is that’s the way Young Shin dealt with things from the time she left that abusive situation. She looked about 8 (did they ever say how old she was when Amazing Dad & his wife agreed her?
Back to my original train of chaos – Social media did not become all invasive part of life until she would’ve been around ten (I’m guessing on all of this based on my son’s age. He was born in 1985 like our characters (I think as far as the characters go).) So she’s never made a digital footprint but by the time she becomes a reporter at Someday, she’s no longer concerned with abuser (for the reasons you’ve said) and doesn’t feel she needs it [social media] because she has no friends to connect with. Just like I wondered about Jun hoo’s military service, Young shin made no friends even in college??? Which makes her reaction to Bong soo kind of odd. I guess we’ll have to chalk her enthusiasm up to her being excited to get a junior assistant as @zippverscluss said.
I’m not surprised that Jun hoo didn’t make friends in the army. It must have been a conscious decision. To make and to have friends, you need to know how to like and to trust people. I wouldn’t expect him to know how to do it.
I agree with you about YS having no college friends: strange.
And re her reaction to Bong Soo, yes, her desire to have a junior most likely means that she just wants someone to boss around.
About that dress: excellent attention to details!
@MariaF – I take no credit. After you’ve watched something probably 5-6 times… 😆 Confession: I really haven’t zoomed in on that dress/top. Maybe they’re just the same color?
I’m sure that Young shin has trust issues as well which is why Amazing Dad gave her advice on trusting people. But you’d think in a school environment, somebody would have squeezed themselves into her cracks long before now.
Can you give us the website again?
Courtesy of @zippverscluss
Thank you @zippverschluss and @beez! Looks like a fan site for Healer. Cool! Will take a look.
@beez, reason Young shin is not active on social media is fear that her abusive foster people (they don’t deserve the title “parents”) might find her.
wow, wow, wow – this is totally from another “planet”. ys was legally adopted by her current dad and mom, who passed away. her former parents must have legally given up on her for her current dad to be able to become her legal parent. even if the former parents would find her, so what? this is quite a bizarre idea, beyond lack of logic.
@eda, that’s because what abusers do has no basis in logic. When you’re very familiar with communities that habor abusers, you see this behavior all the time. There are people who never get a driver’s license because they can’t have their information available in public records because of abusers. This is why I didn’t want to discuss My Mister because I come from an area where everyone is a “Jian” and my opinions would only stir up controversy.
that’s because what abusers do has no basis in logic.
true, no argument here.
but here is the current situation: you must agree, that even in korea, adoption must be a process and recorded in some kind of government files. so it is worth to imagine that she was adopted by her current parents legally, and again LEGALLY her previous adoptive parents are no longer in her life, and legally have not rights to her, at all. also, at this point, she is a grown up, not stupid, with a dad who’s also not stupid and understands the law in korea (safe to assume, right?). so even if they find her, unless they are true criminals, mafia, or any other kind of powerful gangsters (which i doubt, or they would not have been able to become adoptive parents or even foster parents in first place), they would not dare, or be able to come after her at this point, because ys and father would have reported it to the police. besides, they had enough previous shady people out of prison around their house, ready to defend them at any moment. ys knows it very well. so i do not think she’s afraid of being discovered and beaten up by them with a metal pole like in the past when she was a completely vulnerable child.
she proves her lack of such fear as the drama progresses and we see her in all kind of situations that a person with fears as described above would not engage in.
zipp, now it seems you just like “tears”, whoever it might be, man or woman. i am talking about your comment from the next episodes, where you expected healer to cry a river. all right, may be not a river, but a stream. i do not want to repeat myself, i explained my take on it, i think it was in reply to maria.
Sorry that I joined the community watch late, but I’m all caught up now. Love reading all the posts….thanks for sharing everyone!
This is my first time seeing this show is AMAZING. I’m now excited to watch the rest of Kfangurl’s A+ dramas and the “iconic dramas.”
One of the things that I do clear up my confusion about characters is look for a relationship chart on the internet. I have trouble keeping the five straight and wish they could have done a little more to visually distinguish them (hair styles, glasses, etc.). Here’s a link to the one I use for this show:
It’s just me…..Usually when I read a novel, I have a post-it note in the cover where I record my list of key characters and draw a family tree/relationship chart. It’s a little late for this tip, but maybe it will be useful on our next shared watch.
The “Embrace the World” theme music for the five brings me to tears every time. It’s a beautifully done piece that is unlike most of the driving action music or vocal love songs.
Ha. That chart. I could’ve used one of those for Some Day or One Day!
hei, you are here! long time no see.
Yes, kinda, at least!
you always make me worry, really. is all ok?
first of all, thank you so much for this. i’m not a regular k-drama watcher and first saw the show 4-5 years after it came out. since i love reading reviews and analyses, this meant there was a lot to read, but for the first time i found myself wanting to actively discuss it, so my itch was not completely scratched. plus, there’s not a lot of (good, non-korean) fanfic for this show.
healer is one of my comfort watches / reads, and it’s just so rich and layered that everytime you discover something new. so i went back to my ‘best of’ recently, came here to re-read and saw that you guys are doing a group watch – awesome!
so i might actually take this opportunity to rewatch the whole thing and not just bits and pieces and go back to comment on the episode posts in this group watch, because now i might get answers to questions 1000s of comments on soompi, dramabeans and everything else i found didn’t answer! 🙂
also, i apologize in advance if this is too long, but this show is living rent-free in my head for a few months every year, so i’ve thought about it a lot.
about the mom thing: i’ve watched (parts of) the show many times, i still struggle with this character.
i never got the impression she left jung-hoo to remarry (didn’t know that was a thing in sk before this show and am not a regular k-drama watcher, so not steeped in the tropes) and always interpreted her new husband’s comments in the sense that she planned to spend the rest of her life alone, but he talked her into marrying him and then a child came along.
so it never made sense to me why she left him in the first place? i was irked by the conciliatory nature of their relationship in the present and could not follow mom’s logic.
what kind of untangled the whole mom situation and, in a broader sense, the “why is everybody leaving jung-hoo”-mess for me a bit, is something sabu says in his conversation with moon-sik (one of my favourite scenes of the whole show btw.) sabu says to moon-sik “if a child asks, an adult should answer.” and this sentence was revelatory to me.
i feel like this theme of “questions & (non-)answers” runs through the whole show: (partly) sabu leaving jung-hoo, jung-hoo knowing the agony of unanswered (even unacknowledged) questions (by his mom, sabu, and ahjumma), therefore being ready to at least listen to young-shin’s question to him on the rooftop, episode 9 “i have a question, you are my teacher, so teach me” etc. and i do believe, mom leaving him can be viewed in the same vein.
we learned that moon-sik told mom to stop digging, so as to not get jung-hoo hurt. knowing what we’ve seen of moon-sik, this most likely didn’t go like “stop this or i’m gonna hurt your son”, but more along the lines of “i’m on your side. there are powerful people involved. you cannot win. the only way to keep you and your son safe is to bury this forever. don’t ask questions, never speak of it again.”
all the adults think jung-hoo believes his father died due to an accident. so his mom probably anticipated that she could not keep this lie up as he got older and that, as soon as jung-hoo knows the truth, he would start asking questions and start digging (and she was right).
you can even see mom using her new family as a shield to deflect jung-hoo’s questions about his dad and his friends in episode 4. feigning ignorance and a fading memory, she says something along the lines of “you know i can’t keep stuff from my old family in the new home”, which made it seem (to me at least) that new hubby wasn’t such a good guy, whereas in the flashback i get the impression he’s a nice enough dude who wouldn’t mind jung-hoo joining their family.
i think in her mind, by cutting jung-hoo off from her, she was trying to forestall jung-hoo starting to question too much about his father’s death. he’d think her cruel, but at least he’d be save.
i have more to say, but this is getting ridicously long, so i’ll stop here. i’d like to point out though that the writer & the assistants did a written q & a after the show (you can find the q & a’s here: https://morumoruisland.blogspot.com/search/label/SJN#; https://morumoruisland.blogspot.com/search/label/assistantQA) and also spoke on the topic of mom. i think it contains spoilers though, so i posted the relevant quote in the spoilers section.
i would like to end by asking you guys something: why do think jung-hoo was relieved to find the paper star in his car? did he think it meant young-shin didn’t know the truth, because she would have taken it with her as proof? a commenter on dramabeans said, they believed it was because now he knew that she knew and was relieved the truth was out. the writer just said this:
Q: When did Jung-Hoo realize for the first time that Young-Shin knew who he was?
A: At the hospital, the focus was more on him not wanting to lie to Young-Shin anymore. Young-Shin couldn’t reveal to him that she knew, and Jung-Hoo didn’t want to [lie] to Young-Shin anymore. Then he was relieved to find the star in the car. Then he realizes at the cafe. She knows. She says she’ll wait. If Jung-Hoo doesn’t realize after that, he’s either dumb or a jerk.
for some reason this detail has been really nagging at me and i’d love to hear your thoughts! 🙂
Thank you for posting the link. Good info there.
My thoughts regarding that paper star:
For Healer, that star was a memento of the special conversation they had after that traumatic elevator experience and their first kiss. The first kiss that made Healer realize that he was in love with YS. And she pretty much confessed to Bong Soo that she was in love with “Healer” during their phone conversation.
At the time he left the hospital, Healer knew that YS’d figured out who he was and that he’d been lying to her. He was afraid she was angry enough to take that paper star from him.
maria, i think that actually ys brought all these feelings in healer to the surface. i think she started it by confessing her infatuation with healer to bong soo. i am not sure he would even go in this direction or even think about it if she would not have started the ball rolling.
I have to disagree with you on that.
Remember that conversation between ahjumma and healer after he defended YS against ss guys? He asked if ss guys could hurt YS. Ahjumma even stopped knitting for a moment and asked if YS was that pretty? He ran to her, even after ahjumma told him to run away, because he could’ve been recognized. And all he was worried about afterwards was YS. He probably didn’t realize then what was going on. Ahjumma did. Right away.
The romance thing would’ve probably taken longer, if it weren’t for YS. But he was hooked. And he couldn’t help it.
you have a point. i still think it might not have gone that far if ys would not have initiated this. it’s a mix.
Well, it definitely wouldn’t have progressed, if she didn’t want him. I don’t see him doing that moonshik thing, for sure.
haha! This is horrible! What you’re saying – and I agree- is that if Healer wasn’t already falling for Young shin, and if instead of Young shin, it had been anyone else – that Healer never would’ve gone back to risk jeopardizing his identity. 😆
funnily enough i was thinking along similar lines yesterday. because the three main characters’ initial (re-)connection in the show was a case of coincindence and luck in way, i wondered what he would have done if young-shin didn’t have a connection to his murder case. and i agree he would have gone back anyway. not because he loves her (yet), but because he feels she’s a kindred spirit, even if he hadn’t realized it himself yet.
i let your interpretation sit with me yesterday. it’s a good angle, one i haven’t considered before. i’m just not convinced, he truly realizes that she knows at that point. not because he thinks her stupid (contrary to his later words), but because he’s in no state to consciously think it all through. you know, probably still feeling the (after-)effects of the tranquilizer, his mom just being used as bait, his teacher being taken captive.
i thought so too the first time i saw it, but then the episode progressed and i felt like he did what he always does when faced with adversity – moving forward, working off a to do list to adress the situation at hand: deal with moon-sik (postponed), get his mom out of the line, get the necessary information from moon-ho to determine his next steps to make sure his mom and young-shin are safe. and then suddenly young-shin pops in and it felt to me that was the moment where it occured to him that there’s a very high probability she put the pieces together.
anyways, it’s a small detail, no biggie. i don’t know why i get hung up on it. 😅
Yes, it seemed like that to me too.
I’m positive he knew that she figured it out.
First of all, she asked the right question: “how did the girl know where he was?” And then she pretended that it was probably his ‘mother’, who somehow found him.
She “accepted” his excuse that he took sleeping pills and got injured. He didn’t even finish explaining, because he knew she wouldn’t believe him.
He also knew that she would’ve behaved differently, if she thought he was Bong soo. She always behaved like a mother hen when she was with him. She was completely different at that moment.
He asked her, if she was shocked, and she said “yes”. Shocked, because she realized that he is not who he says he is. And that’s why he said he was sorry.
Also, when he was leaving, she asked him if he’d be back. Why would be asking him that, if he were Bong soo? She was worried that he might disappear, and he knew that. Disappear, because now someone else knows that he is Healer. And he can’t have that.
And, last, but not least, we should never underestimate his ability to quickly access any situation he is in. He is very quick.
makes a lot of sense, i just interpreted these beats slightly differently.
first of all, young-shin was magnificent when she gave him (them) that out. the writer said the focus in the hospital scene was on the fact that “jung-hoo no longer wanted to lie to young-shin” and that is the message i got… like he just ran out of steam and simply couldn’t do it at that moment and she was strong and gracious enough to let him off the hook.
i always tied her changed behaviour & his shocked question together, as – from his perspective – the violence and blood made her have an episode.
i always feel like they both know they are play-acting in this scene, i just am not sure about his degree of certainty for above mentioned reasons. and the writer’s comments on the scene(s) kind of affirmed to me that it was left ambigious on purpose…. hence i didn’t know how to interpret the star-beat in the car.
but i’ll take your view next time i watch it and see how it vibes, 🙂
to your last point, i can’t help but add that yes, he’s very quick, but he doesn’t always arrive at the right conclusion / decision. 🙂 and i loved realizing on my first re-watch, that healer is not infallible and that sometimes his m.o. is actually an obstacle.
like, take his approach to getting hair from young-shin: just dress up as a normal dude, pull a park bong-su and fall over, rip some hair out, apologize profusely and she probably won’t even remember your face. or even in the actual situation – she just fell on you, prime opportunity. but his instict was to hide his face and act in a manner no “normal” person would in this situation and that clocked her onto him in the first place… 😂
just dress up as a normal dude, pull a park bong-su and fall over, rip some hair out,
I think it wasn’t so much Healer’s decision as it was writers’ decision. They wanted viewers to meet him as healer first, and then see him do bong soo.
viewed from this angle, everything is the writer’s decision and all our comments are superfluous. and we already met healer – the whole first episode was about meeting our three main characters. and i don’t mean literally introduce park bong-su, just, you know, be a random, clumsy dude.
anyway, it was quite fitting to what we knew of him up to this point, but still, he was his own biggest obstacle. him and ahjumma both actually. it shows that they haven’t been around people for quite some time… 😉
all our comments are superfluous
Why? It’s a show. So, we should feel free to discuss both aspects – characters and their actions and feeling, but also the writers’ intentions and quality of their work. Isn’t it why we read interviews with the writers, directors and actors?
it shows that they haven’t been around people for quite some time…
That’s for sure!
i agree with what you say, which is why i was so happy to have stumbled upon this group watch. i just interpreted “writer’s decision” as a … well, we would call it Totschlagargument (i just checked, the dictionary says thought-terminating cliché… never heard that expression. google translate says killer argument, but that’s not it either….). it refers to an “argument”, which basically kills any discussion, because everything can be broken down to that level and it makes any further discussion superfluous.
so in this case, everytime you (the general you, not the specific you) don’t agree with or don’t understand a character’s motivation, or feel there’s a hole in the plot etc. you simply put it down to the writer’s decision. but i can do that with the whole show, in which case any discussion arrives at the conclusion that it was the writer’s decision.
i did not mean ill and apologize, if i came across curt.
Not at all. I understand what you are saying.
By the way, during “My mister” group-watch we had a very interesting discussion about how we see show characters and how we interpret their actions/thoughts. Also, how we try to interpret/understand writers’ and directors’ intentions and messages they want us to get.
but i can do that with the whole show, in which case any discussion arrives at the conclusion that it was the writer’s decision.
but that’s exactly right, any drama after all is a product of a group of artists (in a best case) – the whole production team, starting with the writer. that’s their art work and their creative expression. we can like it we can not like it. we can accept it- we can reject it, we can argue with it, but we should view it as their decision as it is their “baby”.
@MariaF – I agree on all counts. But I also think it could be played for double meaning –
If Healer is testing just how much does she know, then his asking if she were shocked could mean because he’s supposed to keep her away from violence. So if later she doesn’t know, he can say that’s what he was asking about.
But I do agree with your assessment of that entire scene.
Great to hear your thoughts, @zippverschluss, and especially this was insightful to think about:
i feel like this theme of “questions & (non-)answers” runs through the whole show: (partly) sabu leaving jung-hoo, jung-hoo knowing the agony of unanswered (even unacknowledged) questions (by his mom, sabu, and ahjumma), therefore being ready to at least listen to young-shin’s question to him on the rooftop, episode 9 “i have a question, you are my teacher, so teach me” etc.
You’re right, Jung Hoo has had to grow up with so many unanswered questions that he’d love to ask all the important people in his life. I’m glad he’s finally started to dig around to find the truth of what happened. In that sense Moon Ho being willing to give him documents and tell him what he knew is an important catalyst.
i am glad jung hoo is finally waking up, he lived his life detached from life (and avoiding human emotions).
i feel it plays into on of the main themes of the show, that information is power. it’s the intersection of the professional (media, politics, whistleblowers) and the personal (intergenerational secrets and trauma).
elder & moon-sik seek to control information. moon-sik and moon-ho use access to, and omission of information to their advantage and to control others. sabu leaves and evades jung-hoo to avoid answering his questions. mom starts crying when jung-hoo comes to ask questions (not intentional, still emotional manipulation). ahjumma simply ignores jung-hoo when she doesn’t want to answer him.
jung-hoo and especially young-shin are always at a disadvantage, because they lack information.
Yeah. The thing with the crumpled-folded star never made sense to me. I always chalked it up to those things directors do and don’t stop to think how people would react in real life. The star still being there tells Healer nothing. Had it been gone would’ve been another matter.
It made perfect sense to me…
@Maria F – I need it explained to me then, please? If the star were gone, then he’d know she’d seen it, but with it being in the box, there’s no way to know if she’d seen it or not.
I’m just copying from my earlier comment:
My thoughts regarding that paper star:
For Healer, that star was a memento of the special conversation they had after that traumatic elevator experience and their first kiss.
The first kiss that made Healer realize that he was in love with YS. And she pretty much confessed to Bong Soo that she was in love with “Healer” during their phone conversation.
At the time he left the hospital, Healer knew that YS’d figured out who he was and that he’d been lying to her. He was afraid she was angry enough to take that paper star from him.
He didn’t want to lose it.
He was afraid she was angry enough to take that paper star from him. He didn’t want to lose it.
i understood it completely different. i thought ys was frantically looking for more evidence, anything, to provide support for her recent discovery. finding the star, the entire incident in the phone booth and their conversation, and that he was around to come after her to the booth and pick up that star – it all came into focus for her.
how did you decide that he was afraid i did not see it at all. please, where did you see it, did i miss it,?
Yes. For her, it was proof that he was Healer.
The question was “Why did he wanted to make sure that the star was still there.”
During the rooftop scene Healer tells ahjumma that wants to tell YS everything. And that he expects YS to get angry at him, once she finds out who he really is. Not for long though.
Now it happened. He is worried that she took that special star from him, because she is angry.
Its just a speculation. My understanding why he frantically looked for the star.
o, i see what you mean.
i thought that healer simply wanted to check whether she went through his stuff and discovered the star. i did not sense anger or fear there. he simply wanted to confirm what she knows and what she does not.
@MariaF – sorry for making you repeat that.
KFG wrote: “how tiny Young Shin looks, next to him.
It’s perfect, but also, quite curious. How did they do that?
I think that, in Healer mode, he just stands up straight when he is next to her. When he is Bong Soo, he is always slouching. He looks like he has hunched shoulders.
Thanks MariaF! That makes sense!! 🤩
dear KFG! i posted a comment here and in the spoiler thread, but they are not showing up while replies are. since this is the first time i’m participating – did i do something wrong? thank you!
edit: just saw that they’re awaiting approval. 🙂
Hi there zippverschluss! WELCOME!! Your comments were likely flagged for approval because of the external links included.. Spam bots tend to do that too, so the system gets suspicious of long comments with external links. Sorry it took a while for me to moderate them; I was asleep the whole time. 😅 All good now! ❤️
i eventually figured out that it was probably the links. 🙂 thank you again for this forum and your efforts.
and no worries about sleeping. i think we’re in different time zones. 🙂
totally agree. i know exactly what scene KFG is referring to and wondered the same thing the first time i watched the show.
you can most clearly see his bent knees, hunched upper body in episodes 3 & 4, in his jealous fit in episode 7, and then again when brushing young-shin off in episode 11. i’m pretty sure they also used the costumes to respectively hide and enhance certain features.
also, when he hugs / kisses her, you can see how he has to bend his knees. it looks quite funny, once you notice it. 🙂
@zipperschluss – Slightly different take on “manner legs”. Don’t see that as much as we used to these days.
@beez – ha! thx for making me google that, the results were quite a ride… XD
@zippverscluss – ready to try “manner hands”?
That’s so funny! Never realized that was a thing!
lol, that looks quite funny.
but to be completely honest with you, i also find it really respectful and i think i’d personally actually prefer that, because i do not like being touched by people i’m not close to (not to mention to the people taking such opportunities to cop a feel).
Check our this article on “Manner legs:” https://pop.inquirer.net/110082/korean-manner-legs-solving-tall-people-problems-one-inch-at-a-time
This is one of the most hilarious things I’ve ever seen.
How did they do that?
DO WHAT? can somebody be more specific?
To make Healer look manly, tall and broad-shouldered when he is next to YS in healer mode. Bong Soo doesn’t look this way.
I don’t know how you have so much time to watch and write, kfangurl, but I’m so glad you do! 🙂
The hospital scene and the cafe scene are tops for me, too. The realization in the hospital that Bong Su is Healer, and the conversation between YS and BS in the cafe when she says she’s angry and that she’ll wait for him to come are what make this show so brilliant! It only works because Bong Su has a hidden identity, but it works so well.
Totally agree with what you’re saying about the plotline of Healer’s mom leaving him when he was a child. If she really were crying every day, and if her new hubby really loved her, wouldn’t he welcome Jung Hoo to live with their family? Since Mom and Jung Hoo were being threatened, wouldn’t it be better for Jung Hoo to remain under her care and protection, instead of out there floundering on his own? Some things in that backstory don’t make sense. But it does heighten Jung Hoo’s trauma and sense of isolation.
Couple things I noticed this time around:
– Healer and Sabu are really a tragic story. Even when Sabu comes back into Healer’s life, they never get to resume a normal relationship. Like Healer said, he never even got to eat a meal with Sabu again. As close as they were, it’s too bad they never did get into a new rhythm or got to talk or see each other again.
– Everyone else running up the stairs at the mall is completely winded (Yo Yo guy and his men, Young Shin). But Healer, even with an arm injury AND a tranq dart strong enough to bring down an elephant, makes his way upstairs. Hehe. He truly is mostly muscle. It made me laugh that the show had the doctor make a point to say that.
– Does anyone else have a bed like Healer’s? Is it actually comfortable?! It looks so uncomfortable to me. And his warehouse is always so cold! Doesn’t seem like a nice place to live.
– As always Appa and Cafe Ahjussi are so funny together. “She tells that idiot everything,” ahjussi says in reference to Young Shin and Bong Su. It’s so entertaining that their opinion of Bong Su is so low!
@the_sweetroad – if we accept that mom was selfish that does away with that particular plot hole. (Notice I’m restraining myself from using words like Betrayor Mom and skank, etc.)
@beez – can you elaborate on that here? Selfish in what way? I know we’ve talked about it a ton in the spoiler zones already, but watching these episodes today and seeing her shock and tears in the playground upon seeing teenage Jung Hoo…it still doesn’t seem congruent to me.
@the_sweetroad – while I’m watching her tears, I’m not moved at all because I compare her hurt to what she did that will leave scars for a lifetime. I’ve been hedging around it but I do feel Healer has anger issues. If this were real life, I’d be afraid for Young shin being with a guy with such power who can snap like that. Of course, we’d like to believe, like Young shin, that “he will never ever hurt [her]”. But truthfully, adults who do these types of things to children are exactly how these traumas are embedded (perpetrated upon).
As @MariaF has said it’s not uncommon for Korean mothers to not bring children into their remarriage but in those cases they know the child is being cared for (at least did & shelter) by family and for dat-gone-sure, they don’t completely cut off contact. She disappeared where her barely teen, maybe pre-teen had to hunt her down. She’d be less than human if she weren’t crying. When I think of the hurt that favoring siblings can do to people even when they have the same parents and live in the same house together… amd he asks “how come you can live with him but not me?” (Ok. I’m rehashing myself from the spoiler thread. Sorry y’all.)
But while it may not be uncommon that Korean moms may leave their children to remarry, I believe it’s far more common that women don’t leave or give over the raising of their children to others so they can remarry.
In fact, it’s documented that Korean mothers are crazy (at least about their sons anyway). [I’m a crazy mom too so no insult intended.] As we know, military service is mandatory but the S. K. military had to send out directives (letters home) obstructing mothers to stop showing up to the military base for unscheduled visits, stop sending food, and stop calling the base commanders to check on their sons. 😁
And I’ve seen as many dramas where future mothers-in-laws throw down the gauntlet of “I’ll accept you marrying my son but you must leave your child behind” and the mothers decide not to marry. (Of courseb it’s the rom-com Kdramas so happy endings and it all works out.) I’m just sayin’ though that for every drama that mom leaves for marriage, I’d bet there’s just as many where she doesn’t. (Evil golddiggers in melos who will dip anything for money being the exception. They probably out number loyal moms because they’re needed for the makjang-ness of the story.)
Back to Healer’s mom (sorry about the segue), her tears, while I feel they’re real – what do her tears change for Jung hoo? The reality is she can feel bad and cry but ultimately her life moves on dealing with her new son, her husband and his extended family. Sure she’ll feel bad when she sees Jung hoo (maybe even when she thinks about him here and there) but the very fact that nobody took him from her, she chose to leave him – it’s not the same scar on her that’s imprinted on him and determines everything he’ll do, everything he is (I’m talking in general for people who experience this type of trauma). Does she cry until her husband says “Okay, I’ll stand up to my family” (assuming it’s his parents who objected). Her tears mean NOTHING! NOTHING to me! ya hear me?
@the_sweetroad – I get the feeling you just wanted to get me going again to give y’all a laugh. 😆
🙂 Ha! I really did want to revisit this. You know what I think is weird. Either it really was her husband’s fault (or his family’s) and he didn’t want Jung Hoo to live with them (and Mom didn’t have agency in the decision) OR she was selfish and just left Jung Hoo to pursue a new life, and let him flounder. In the first scenario, the husband seems like a nicer guy than that – especially if he knew she was crying for all this time. In the second scenario, her tears upon meeting him at the playground seem at odds with any selfishness. So obviously, I keep going around and around in circles.
But I get what you’re saying – she doesn’t show any regret as far as ACTIONS go – it’s not like she’s running after him, saying “Come back, we can live together. I’ve missed you so much.” Whatever the scenario she had to live through, she’s not doing anything to correct it or make things any better for teenage Jung Hoo. GRRRRR!!!!
@the_sweetroad – I would say as to “she didn’t have agency” if that’s the case, she only felt that way because at the end of the day she made that choice to leave him. I’ve seen people in dramas who had no choice because they were the only source of income for their siblings or children but we’re not shown that Betrayor Mom did that to support Jung hoo and Granny. If they showed us that, then I might have a smidgen of sympathy for her. The reason it would still only be a smidge of a smidgeon is because he still had to go looking for her. If she were visiting him regularly, he wouldn’t have had to search for her.
while I’m watching her tears, I’m not moved at all.
same here, her crocodile tears are not changing my perception of this mother at all. but we went in circles about it in the last open thread of ep.11-12. so i am not going to repeat myself, i wrote quite extensively on my disgust with her – it did not change. and so i believe everybody already knows how i feel about it, but just to confirm i agree with all that is said here above and below, except that questions about why, how, to what extent, the motivation of her actions, did she or didn’t she, etc. remain an open question for us. the last explanation, which is no explanation really, is that the writer did not know what to do about it. it’s hardly a satisfactory explanation, at least for me, but rather a cop out, but may be we reached a dead end.
the show itself remains on the top of my best dramas. regardless of how many times i rewatch it, it is still exiting just like the first time, and even that i know what is going to happen next, i can still hardly move away from the screen.
I agree. It’s definitely not an explanation of mom’s behavior.
When I attributed this situation to lazy writing, this was my rationale:
Some writers are not very good at creating action heroes.
Others are not good at writing love scenes.
And in this case the writer doesn’t know how to do a bad mother.
And in this case the writer doesn’t know how to do a bad mother.
well, it’s almost funny, but with lack of another cop out i’ll go with this one.
@MariaF – but what do you mean by “bad mother”?
I’ve known some bad mothers in real life. They don’t always fit the bad mother profile as shown in movies or tv shows where the mother is so selfish and evil that she never shows any remorse. I’ve known some who are addicted to the casino and once their kids fall asleep, leave them at home alone without worrying about break-ins or a possible fire. I’ve known mothers who are drug addicts, completely abandoning their children or worse leaving them with crack dealers for collateral that they’ll keep their promise to return to pay. (They have no idea if the crack dealer would pimp that child for sex or anything!) Even they have real tears and regrets. That is why I believe the writer did okay in this portrayal because even bad mothers love their children and will cry buckets of tears when something happens, even though sometimes they don’t even see the connection to their stupid selfish behavior as the cause. I have no sympathy for their tears but I know they love their children and feel hurt. I may even feel very judgmental like “you don’t deserve to have kids” but I still know they love them just not the way, or to the extent, that I love my kids. Or in this case we could compare Betrayor Mom to Myung hee and say BM (hee-hee) doesn’t love Jung hoo as much as Myung hee loves Young shin.
A mother that leaves her child behind, with no excuses about saving him or protecting him, no supposed non-stop crying, etc… And without any arrangements for him to have a reasonably safe, decent childhood. At least that. No horror stories about abuse, selling children are necessary.
@MariaF – I guess we’ll just have to disagree on this one. I still feel her tears are real to her. They just mean nothing to me 😆 nor do they do anyone else any good.
Have you read Robert Parker’s mystery novel “Early Autumn“?
If you did, you’d know what I’m talking about.
@MariaF – I haven’t heard of it. Korean drama has replaced my reading. After I became ill, I would forget the paragraph I just read as soon as I read the next paragraph. Even with dramas, I often have to skim through the previous episodes and actually rewatch the last 10-15 minites of the latest previous episode before I start the new one. I do okay if I can binge because the whole story is laid out and ongoing in my brain. But if I take a break or if some time goes by before the next episode comes out, then I have to rewatch parts to know what’s going on.
Oh. Beez, I didn’t know. I’m so sorry to hear that.
How do you manage to keep up with all our comments?
@MariaF – I can’t. But I think I do pretty well if we’re commenting on the same day. I’m sure you’ve noticed me repeating myself or asking something that was already answered directly to me. (I don’t count when I answer and somebody had already answered but I haven’t seen their answer yet because I only go my the email notifications.
I think you are doing great. I wouldn’t have known, if you hadn’t said anything.
@MariaF – thanks! Some days are better than others. And my poor memory is probably why I’ve wanted to watch Healer over and over. But sometimes my memory embarrasses me.
I’m learning Korean and it is supposed to take 1 week to learn the alphabet if a person is really slow (dumb or mentally challenged). It took me 2 years! The neurologists said there was no repairing or rerouting my memory, but I’m thankful and happy to say that they’re wrong! It’s still slow going but I can now learn vocabulary words and while it may be slower than the time table that is expected, it’s much faster going than it was at first. I think trying to learn Korean may be what has helped my memory improve to where it is now. Of course, I remember things that happened before I got sick so like most older people, I can tell you what happened 40-50 years ago with absolute clarity. 😆
I really admire your perseverance! And learning a new language is very difficult.
Why Korean? Because of the shows?
@MariaF – it’s all tied up in when I first started watching Korean dramas. I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in 2012 but I had been sick for many years but just kept going (single mom so no choice but work & push on). Then the doctors kept misdiagnosing me. By the time they finally figured out it was M.S. and the testing and treatments left me literally flat on my back in 2012, I discovered Kdramas and they kept me sane. (I had actually moved and during the car drive from Michigan to Florida is when the disease made itself fully known. So I ended up in Florida completely alone, away from my family.)🤧 😆
Anyway, you can imagine just how much Kdrama I binged back to back to back. Eventually, as I became better (much better), I found that I couldn’t watch Kdrama and even do simple tasks like folding clothes because taking my eyes off the screen for even a second…
So in 2016, I started the Korean alphabet which the Korean saying goes “A wise man can acquaint himself with them before the morning is over; even a stupid man can learn them in the space of ten days.” Well, two years later…
I admit that during those 2 years, I wasn’t diligent about practicing everyday but that was due to my frustration of knowing I was going over aand over the same few letters and just not able to retain them. But after 2 years of every few days trying and trying, they finally began to stick. Then upon attempting actual words and becoming frustrated again (because they don’t teach Korean in a logical manner. I swear if I ever become fluent, I’m going to write a book that teaches it step by step), I might stop for months at a time. I’ve finally become more diligent and I’m actually making progress so middle finger to the neurologists who said my learning new things would be impossible! Extremely difficult – yes. But not impossible.
That’s awesome you’re making progress that the neurologists didn’t think you would! Congrats! So you’ve been watching kdramas for 10 years now. Happy 10-year anniversary! 🙂 And it sounds so tough, but congrats on tackling and learning how to live with MS for 10 years. That is a feat.
Thanks @the_sweetroad. I didn’t even realize I have a Kdrama anniversary! I should thank Hulu too because if not for running out of things to watch there and it having Kdramas before any other Western platform did.
You are absolutely amazing! Majority of people would’ve given up.
And you are an inspiration for me. I also need to prove that doctors can be wrong.
@MariaF – I’ve found that most doctors of traditional medicine (M.D.’s) have not helped me at all! Most of my progress has come from following “functional medicine” doctors on the internet.
Thank you beez! I’ll research it. Just to clarify: you followed doctors who did presentations on the internet? Like YouTube videos?
@MariaF – first of all, let me say that I wanted to ask what you’re battling but didn’t want to appear nosy” but if you care to share, I’d be interested to hear. My research into my own illness means that I’ve come across many things on a myriad of illnesses. So much so that my sister calls me “Doc” after I “healed” her hip. (I just looked up a supplement that one of my internet “quacks” recommended.)
First, there’s Dr. Berg who used to be a chiropractor but now specializes in alternative medicine. Search On youtube “Dr. Berg [illness]”
Dr. Mark Hyman (M.D.) is a well respected and well known doctor who became sick himself and turned to functional medicine and now that’s his specialty.
Dr. Joel Furhman (M.D.) is also a well respected doctor whom I learned about him from a PBS special. He’s written a few books.
Dr. Al Sears – great advice
Dr. Terry Wahls – is a clinical professor of medicine at the University of Iowa. Dr. Wahls was confined to a wheel chair because of M.S. There are pictures showing her deteriorated body as she taught lectures in her role as a professor. She decided, based on what she knew of the science of food to eat a certain diet and now she’s up and biking in marathons.
Thank you beez. I appreciate the information. Nothing is final yet. All I can say for now is that, for example, it’s not the computer that keeps switching YS vs SY… Unfortunately, it’s me, not being able to remember.
@MariaF – Hwaiting!
Beez, sorry to hear about your illness! Agree with MariaF, I would’ve never known.
@The_sweetroad – thanks. I just feel frustrated as many times I can’t find words. And then just knowing what I was compared to what I am now. I often feel embarrassed, especially when trying to communicate verbally. It’s like my brain is on vacation.
🙁 That sounds so tough. Glad you can be here with us!
I do feel Healer has anger issues
you know i never thought of his anger issues, i just thought it was used as part of his job, when necessary. but now when you mention it, i remember all the times how rude and rough and disrespectful he was to the errand-girl, who actually is part of their business, dragging her from the car, slapping her, taking forcefully and against her will her own bike, etc. that does not look good, and these tendencies can play out in future life, even if he loves the girl. cause for concern here? probably.
The teacher said that healer looked at women as if they were a gum stuck to his shoe, after his mother left him. I think his behavior towards the errand girl was possibly a sign of that attitude. On the other hand, he is pretty respectful to ahjumma.
But healer is definitely not a sweetie. For him to hit someone means absolutely nothing.
healer looked at women as if they were a gum stuck to his shoe,
i think that’s more than gum stuck to the shoe. this looks to me like deep-seated anger, unresolved, caused by pain of his entire life, and this aspect completely escaped my attention until beez mentioned it. our “can do no wrong” beloved healer will have to go to therapy.
I agree. It’s is more than that. But will healer go to therapy?
Also, most of the issues that made him angry have been resolved. He knows now that his father didn’t kill himself. That his teacher loved him. He forgave his mother. He now has ahjumma (as a human being, not just as a voice in his head), Moo ho, and, most importantly, YS.
He’ll be fine. Eventually.
But you know, I find that with people, deep hurts from childhood don’t just go away because the issue is resolved or they find out that it wasn’t true or that they were mistaken. The personality had been formed around those things. So I still vote for Healer to get therapy. Young shin has also had some significant hurts so even though she has Amazing Dad now, they can go together.
But would they go?
I just don’t see Healer seeing a shrink.
ha! Not normally but I bet if Young shin asked him to – or if it were framed in terms of their relationship… Young shin might not ask right away but the moment Jung hoo, Jr. or Young shin, Jr. sees daddy kicking the waste basket… 😆
Oh, no. Not the waste basket!
I agree that they both can benefit from therapy. I have my doubts about him going.
Many years ago I attended a lecture for social workers about importance of therapy. Don’t remember why. After we were done, one of the attendees asked the lecturer, if she ever went to a shrink. Her answer was “I would never go. This is for weak people.”
By the way, I wonder if SY ever had therapy, when she was a child.
From what I’ve heard Koreans don’t believe in therapy (similar to the Black community). “It’s weak” is the consensus. \_(ツ)_/¯
By the way – the reason I specified the waste basket is that after Healer threw Teacher, he vented the rest of his frustration out on the waste basket.
Oh. Now I understand. About the basket.😊
From what I’ve heard Koreans don’t believe in therapy
That’s what I thought.
Healer does want to live as a regular guy. But there must be limits.
By the way, my autocorrect is out of control. I was typing a word ‘some’, and all of a sudden a word ‘Disney’ popped up instead. I’m afraid to look at my previous comments. I imagine there are plenty of crazy words or letters everywhere. But it’s not my fault.
i haven’t noticed any glaring typos so it’s all good just forgive my swypos too!
like “mail” instead of “male”. ha ha. that’s my computer, having a sense of humor.
I am finding it entertaining that YS and SY keep getting switched up for you, just like Eda’s mail and male 🙂
😁 I just decided it was going to keep happening so once I figured out who SY is, I decided to stop nagging MariaF about it.
i think ys will do wonders for him.
@Beez – truer words were never spoken. Insightful analysis Miz B!
Yep, Young Shin, Healer, Moon Ho, and Myung Hee could all stand to go to therapy. Cyber Ahjumma, too, with the death of her son. And come to think of it, Jong Soo is going to need therapy after trying to be a double agent and getting ditched by YS and Bong Su. Hehe.
@the_sweetroad – I felt a knot in my stomach, probably like what Teacher is talking about, when you added in Ahjumma to the mix. I can’t even deal with what happened with her and her son. That makes the show also have a side element about mothers and their relationships with their children, doesn’t it? I just can’t with Ahjumma because I would lump her in with BM but I want to really like Ahjumma. I think what makes Ahjumma a little different from BM to me is I see that she’s punishing herself. She couldn’t just continue with her life as if she didn’t pull that rank move. It’s as if she’s decided never to see sunlight again. And while I like her role, she can just stay in that hole she’s made for herself and that’s fine with me.
But then you made me chuckle with Jong soo. He’s probably the only normal character (as far as we know).
@Beez, I think you’re to hard on Ahjumma with while I like her role, she can just stay in that hole she’s made for herself and that’s fine with me. People can make terrible mistakes but they can also repent. And repentance doesn’t mean punishing yourself your entire life, it means admitting you were wrong, asking forgiveness and making amends, if possible, and trying to chance for the better.
Writer Song Ji-Na says:
Q: Why does Hacker Min-Ja obsess so much over money?
A: That one got skipped, too. Actually, Det. Yoon was supposed to track her down and see her at a children’s hospital. After her son died, Min-Ja had been sponsoring sick children that couldn’t afford their medical expenses.
Q: What is the meaning of Min-Ja always knitting?
A: Min-Ja is supposed to be donating to a children’s hospital. So she knits things to give to the children there or other orphanages. Also, when she’s not working with Jung-Hoo, there’s nothing else for her to do. Just spacing out in that space if she’s not knitting. So knitting is her way of killing time.
I agree. She did a terrible thing. But it was a mistake. She paid for it dearly. She needs to repent, to continue helping sick children.
But she needs to come back to the living, so to speak.
When I think of a 4-year old dying and not understanding why mommy isn’t there – nope. Unforgivable. I could see it if the child was ill but the death was unexpected but I think it showed us that they knew he was terminally ill.
If she didn’t go because she thought the child is not critically ill, then she could have all the chances to redeem herself in the world. In fact, I would feel like she doesn’t need redemption because she shouldn’t blame herself for an unforeseeable mistake. But that’s not what happened.
alexandra, i also agree, ahjumma made a terrible mistake. at the time the warrant for the arrest that they were waiting for finally came through- her choice was to lose this criminal (that could cause more deaths) or to go to the hospital. she has chosen one responsibly and gave up on the other responsibility, as a mother. that was an unfortunate choice but i feel for her. this is in no way the case of healer’s mom.
@Alexandra – I agree and I believe everyone deserves a second, and sometimes many, chances. But I have a different standard for parents – don’t bring children in this world only to neglect and hurt them! I just can’t bend on that.
Beez, the actor playing Jong Soo is also in My Love From the Star! And he’s also in The Producers. In both shows he has a very small role (his role in Healer is by far the most screen time I’ve seen him have). I like him, though – he has good screen presence. Hope he gets bigger roles as time goes on.