Welcome to the Spoiler Zone, everyone!
This is for those of you who want to discuss spoilers, from a “I’ve seen the show and WOW now I’m noticing all these other details in retrospect” sort of angle.
Here’s a Spoiler Zone for you to dig as deep as you’d like, into spoiler territory, WITHOUT the need for spoiler tags or other warnings.
My only request is, PLEASE BE EXTRA MINDFUL OF WHERE YOU ARE COMMENTING. Meaning, please don’t get mixed up, and start talking spoilers in the Open Thread, which could seriously mar the watch experience for a new viewer, OR, a viewer who would really prefer to have the rewatch feel as fresh as possible.
Other than that, READER BEWARE: SPOILERS AHEAD!!!
For the main discussion of episodes 13 & 14, which only deals with spoilers up to the point of the group watch, go here.
ENJOY YOUR SPOILER ZONE, MY FRIENDS! ❤️
Having been AWOL for a while, I’ve not read most of the prior spoiler section commentary.
Did I miss any updates on the debate whether Healer’s apparent social awkwardness while undercover in his Bong-soo disguise is sometimes partly genuine . . . vs. just more of his usual superhero skills?
We’ve moved on already. Our new topic is who needs a shrink.
Great topic! Who on the show . . . or who among those of us who comment here? lol
Well, possibly a few characters. Definitely the writers. Nobody is talking about us: I guess, everyone is afraid to open that can of worms.
Ha. Which is one of the reasons I haven’t been posting here lately. Not enough filters on my own thoughts to hang out in polite company! (jk . . . maybe?)
Ha! We will have all your thoughts. We have wandered pretty far from Healer, at tmes, these past few weeks, and anything is welcome :). This spoiler thread has pretty much stuck to Healer, but just one picture of Ji Sung could send us off again.
but just one picture of Ji Sung could send us off again.
funny beyond a ‘simple laugh”, but have to admit, can not argue with another picture of ji sung, especially with lipstick or without. here you have it – ji sung.
c’mon, meri , be brave. we’ll protect you. spill the beans, we are curious. i many times find myself in the minority, swimming against the current, but i am still here!
i have not read up on all the previous discussions, but i am firmly on team “bong-su is a part of jung-hoo, just like healer is just a part of jung-hoo”. sure, bong-su is an exaggeration, but so is healer.
like, when she asks him whether they have met before and musters him, his nervousness reads as genuine to me. add on top of that, that he is really bad at keeping up the disguise-as-planned for long periods of time and always slips. he’s lucky young-shin really wanted a hoobae and, when it comes to bong-su, is being really assumptive and often oblivious.
but i’m not sure what has already been said about this, so i don’t want to rehash anything.
referring to my comment (*cough* essay *cough*) in the open section, here is the quote about mom from the assistant’s q & a:
Q: What do you think of Jung-Hoo’s mom’s decision?
NSJ: Although this wasn’t brought up much in the show, Joon-Seok’s lawyer was Secretary Oh under the pseudonym of Baek Seung-Jong. He approached JS like that and took care of him in the same way he did Go Sung-Chul, Hwang Jae-Gook, and Gi Young-Jae, and as Jung-Hoo’s mom was being a pain by poking everywhere to clear her husband’s name, he threatened her with an indifferent smile on his face. Moon-Shik played a role here, too.
Jung-Hoo’s mom felt like the attention of the bad guys and the media would be on Jung-Hoo if she was with him, and she thought she’d be found even if she ran away with her son, and he’d have the stigma of being a son of a murderer. So back then, she must have thought that Jung-Hoo would be safe if she left. That her leaving him and living a quiet life was the best for him. One could understand that choice or criticize her, but given those circumstances at the time, it might have been the best course of action for Jung-Hoo’s mom.
you can find the q & a’s here: https://morumoruisland.blogspot.com/search/label/SJN#; https://morumoruisland.blogspot.com/search/label/assistantQA
Thank you zippverschliss! – I did note Jung hoo’s mom recognizing The Weasel as “Attorney Oh” but since we were shown nothing more, I just assumed she’d made his acquaintance through Moon shik but nothing more. That explains why she knew to be so fearful when she saw him at the restaurant. I’m going to check out the link now.
the moon-sik connection was my thought too, when i first saw it. but by that point in the show, we as an audience are already so familiar with secretary oh’s ways that it just seems natural that everybody reacts in an apprehensive manner when they meet him.
on a tangent: i wonder whether jung-hoo ever told young-shin that secretary oh manipulated the elevator. she is suspicious and fearful when he corners her in moon-ho’s aparment complex, but i thought her very composed for meeting her would-have-been-killer….
I don’t think she knew.
@zippverscluss – Good point. As typical of Kdramaland they probably didn’t tell her. We know Moon ho keeps everything close to his vest and only believes in telling people as much as they’ve already found out on their own. 😆 And Healer probably, in typical Kdrama character fashion didn’t tell her. But in his defense, he did want to tell her about her mom.
somehow in my mind i remember that the skunk- secretary oh was healer’s dad’s attorney (probably arranged by elder, to take final care of him), when he was in prison. then healer’s mom would have probably met him as the attorney representing her husband. and then, it is probably him manipulating her and threaten her that it would be very bad for her and for her son to dig into this matter.
is this right, or am i creating my own “drama” within this drama? (my imagination?)
@eda – I don’t remember all the details surrounding Jung hoo’s dad’s arrest but I’ll be sure to be looking for that as we get to this episodes.
i agree with you. i don’t think he told her. which i found strange, cause i agree with beez, he wanted to tell her everything (au contraire to moon-ho). maybe it slipped his mind or maybe he didn’t want to trigger her. (but let’s be honest, in this particular set of circumstances everything is triggering to her.)
along similar lines, two days ago this popped into my head: when young-shin encountered park bong-su in moon-ho’s appartement after the reveal, do you think that’s where it clicked for her that moon-ho knows his real identity? or does she put their suddenly cozy relationship in the correct context when thinking everything through after crying?
I have a question….
In Episode 10, when Bong Su and Young Shin are on the rooftop, he tells her, “Instead of waiting for a person who’s not coming, how about you consider me?…If you want, I can live as the person you want me to. For as long as possible while being very careful, I can be here for you.”
Who is the “person you want me to [be]”? Is it Healer, or is it Bong Su?
I.e. is he saying, “If you want, I can live as Bong Su. For as long as possible while being very careful, I (Healer) can be here for you.”
Or is he saying, “If you want, I can be Healer (the person you want). For as long as possible while being very careful, I can be here for you.”
I don’t know why I find it confusing, but I do…. 😄
@the_sweetroad – Wow. Because in my mind, I’ve integrated Bonsu, Jung hoo and Healer, I didn’t think about that.
But I assume he meant giving up his dangerous lifestyle on the presumption that, as Ahjumma says, no girl from a normal family would want to leave them to go live on a desert island [paraphrasing]
I’m also guessing that’s what he means based on the lifestyle that he (she?) ultimately chose.
I also get the impression that ever since Healer met Young shin, he’s been less than pleased with his occupation as a thief because I think he knows he can’t continue to be that and be with her.
It’s a very good question.
I think he is hoping she would want some kind of a combination. I can’t see him being Bong Soo for the rest of his life: scared, trembling, etc. On the other hand, living with a woman, having a family and being Healer is not sustainable. And I think he himself is getting tired of this kind of life.
He probably still wants to go that island, but he is willing to change. For her. And for himself.
But what did he mean by being very careful then?
Wouldn’t “being very careful” mean because Jung hoo felt he had no reason for living – he probably could be so very good at what he does because he’s not afraid to take risks?
You know how if you do some kind of sport – those who are unafraid of falling or being hurt are the best at it? I’m not saying he’s reckless because the last thing he would want is his freedom taken away by cops, but he has no fear to mediate (is that the right word?) his actions.
And now he will be careful, because he has something to lose and to look for?
Good insights; thanks, ladies!
he lives a dangerous lifestyle, (dangerous job) he’s willing to be more careful for her, give up danger in his life and move on.
sweetroad, i think bong soo/healer meant that he can become for her a NORMAL, REGULAR guy, whatever that meant in the society. not “timid” bong soo and not healer “basking” in danger.
i always took his words at face value.
at this point, he hasn’t been able to reconcile his life / job as healer and his growing desire to be with young-shin. i mean, he couldn’t even come up with an excuse to himself to meet her again, because healer is business and young-shin is personal. so, he concludes, it must be one or the other. (and gives himself permission to be with her, by arguing it’s a “job” he himself solicited.)
in my eyes, he’s telling her he’d give up being healer to be whoever (park bong-su or someone else, but not healer) she wants him to be. which kind of shows you that he’s really not ready for that relationship, because he hasn’t figured himself out yet and is basically offering her to take on whichever appearance she wants him to. (i also read subtitles where they translate it as “in whichever appearance” and not “the person you want”, and “staying right next to you”, “staying by your side”, which i feel makes more sense, because healer is there for her, he just can’t be right next to her.)
as to being careful – just because he gives up being healer, doesn’t mean that healer isn’t still being wanted as a murder suspect among all the other charges. that is the main obstacle to him approaching her in the first half of the show, before it changes to the daddy-murder-mystery. (he’s also aware that someone tried to kill young-shin, and that someone solicited a night courier to find her, then integrated himself in her life and lies to her constantly.)
actually, it only occured to me very recently that they foreshadow / set up that conflict quite nicely at the end of epsiode 2. when healer sees his picture in her room, his interest starts to shift from purely business to personal. and in this exact moment, ahjumma tells him, he’s just become a murder suspect on top of everything else.
there is also i nice call-back to that in episode 10, when he stops short of cracking the lock on the door, because he realizes last-minute that he would implicate her in criminal wrong-doing. good thing for him that young-shin learned how to crack a lock before he did… 🙂
I have to respectfully disagree with a few points here:
he couldn’t even come up with an excuse to himself to meet her again, because healer is business and young-shin is personal. so, he concludes, it must be one or the other. (and gives himself permission to be with her, by arguing it’s a “job” he himself solicited.
Healer is not just business anymore.
Things changed after their kiss on the roof. That’s probably why he wants to come up with an excuse to “meet her again”. Because he wants to kiss her. He can kiss her as Healer, but not as Bong Soo. And she never even heard of Jung hoo.
Also, I don’t think that that job talk is about him giving himself permission to stay next to SY under false pretenses. SY is in real danger. He must stay next to her to protect her.
He’s really not ready for that relationship
I think that he is as ready as he could be. Besides, it’s not his style to “stay still”, so to speak, and wait until he figures everything out. How long has he known SY? Healer is aware (although she isn’t ) that being with YS will require making tremendous efforts and life style adjustments from him, and yet, here he is, already confessing to her.
when he stops short of cracking the lock on the door, because he realizes last-minute that he would implicate her in criminal wrong-doing.
That’s not why he stopped. It would be out of character for Bong Soo to know how to crack a lock.
@zippverscluss @MariaF – I think @zippverscluss is talking about the episodes before the kiss when Healer is rationalizing reasons to remain near Young shin.
But I agree with @MariaF about picking the doorlock. The thought that he would implicate her in wrongdoing seems a very complicated thought to have about simply picking a lock to a roof. I always thought he thought it would seem suspicious to Young shin for “rich kid Bong soo” to go around picking locks.
I think @zippverscluss is talking about the episodes before the kiss when Healer is rationalizing reasons to remain near Young shin.
Healer’s conversation with SY about him looking for an excuse to meet again (when they were trying on different outfits)
and his talk with ahjumma about a job (when he was in a bathroom stall) happened after the elevator episode. They already kissed.
But I don’t think that’s what @zip was talking about. I think she’s talking about very early episodes (like around eps 2-4 maybe).
I remember Ahjumma trying to get him to leave YS alone because he’s a murder suspect and he gives himself the assignment to be near her to “see if it’s a trap”.
I’m not sure.
@zipp used specific phrases “an excuse to meet again” and “got himself a job to stay next to SY”, so I thought @zipp was talking about those conversations, when Healer said that.
I might be wrong.
@MariaF -well we’ll have to wait for @zip to weigh in but I distinctly remember that same language around the time Healer first sees his picture on Young shin’s bedroom wall.
Yes. As I said, I could have misunderstood.
you understood correctly. i am referring to episode 10. and i think that’s his main dilemma: that he doesn’t know how to reconcile being healer with being with young-shin.
of course he wants to kiss her again. he also knows he’s hurting her by not showing up. but he can’t come up with an ecxuse to meet her again as healer to do so. because healer is his business side. and young-shin has no official business with healer. (her asking him out for a date is framed as a job request as well.)
as for young-shin being in danger, yes of course. but he could just have said that – i want to protect her. again, he framed it as a job, because healer is not just jung-hoo, it’s ahjumma (and to an extend dae-yong and the gang) too. he needs to rationalize and justify it.
so that’s where he’s stuck in that moment. how to untangle that knot. he doesn’t know. it’s what he wanted to ask sabu in episode 9.
so he offers to completely leave healer behind and be whoever young-shin wants him to be. not a healthy basis for a relationship. something he recognizes and acknowledges himself in episode 15 when he talks to ahjumma, about finding the real him. he might think himself ready, but from an audience perspective it’s clear that at this point, both jung-hoo and young-shin have a lot of growing left to do.
Healer is aware (although she isn’t ) that being with YS will require making tremendous efforts and life style adjustments from him, and yet, here he is, already confessing to her.
i don’t think he views that as a sacrifice. for me, one of the main messages of show was that the “superhero” life is not glamourous. it’s actually really lonely, sometimes dangerous and most time kind of dull. and that you probably suffered a lot of trauma to reach such a point in your life and become such a person. he’s searching his way out of being healer, she gave him an impetus (other than one day deciding to kill himself).
i hear you both when it comes to the lock, but i’m gonna stick to my view. he had enough time, she would have never known he didn’t open the door with an actual key. but i recognize that maybe he didn’t have enough time, in which case he realized that he once again slipped out of character… 🙂
It’s an interesting conversation. And a long one. Just a few thoughts:
his main dilemma: that he doesn’t know how to reconcile being healer with being with young-shin.
His main dilemma is not how to reconcile, but how to move on from being healer to being a person who can be with YS the way ahjumma described: buying houses, investing in pension plans, etc.
be whoever young-shin wants him to be. not a healthy basis for a relationship.
Not in his case. Healer needs to start somewhere. He cannot remain healer. For numerous reasons.
But he is not going to wait until everything is worked out, until he knows exactly who he is, who he wants to be and how to become that “who”. He is too much of n person of action for that.
Also, I imagine he wouldn’t want to risk a possibility of SY meeting some guy with a house, while he is still contemplating what to do.
Of course, if he gets stuck in that whatever-you-want-me-to-be mode, it will be unhealthy. But I somehow doubt it’s going to happen.
he could just have said that – i want to protect her.
No, he couldn’t. He wasn’t ready to admit to ahjumma that he has feelings for SY. They have a business relationship. At least for now.
(her asking him out for a date is framed as a job request as well.)
Not quite. In the beginning of the show SY asked her dad for money. She was going to pretend to hire Healer, and then interview him instead.
This time she maybe started with the business talk, but then she says the word “date”. Not a business meeting. A date. And he says ‘yes’ to a date.
That’s the irony of the situation, the paradox: his business, mysterious persona can have a date with YS and even kiss her. He himself can’t. No wonder he is looking for an excuse.
But, Healer wants to change that. And soon. That’s where his confession comes from. So he is not exactly “stuck”. He is moving in the right direction. Maybe he is not doing it the best way, but…
i don’t think he views that as a sacrifice.
I don’t think so either. I didn’t mean it that way. I meant it will require a lot of work, efforts and, yes, a lot of growing up. But it’s absolutely worth it for him.
Regarding the lock. Healer probably didn’t want to risk YS catching him. But also writers probably wanted him to see what she can do.
It’s ok to decode writers intentions, right?
“Also, I imagine he wouldn’t want to risk a possibility of SY meeting some guy with a house, while he is still contemplating what to do” quoting MariaF
Out of all the deep stuff you and zippverscluss are discussing, this is what stood out to me and made me chuckle.
maria, His main dilemma is not how to reconcile, but how to move on from being healer to being a person who can be with YS
i do not think he sees it as a dilemma at this point – love is blind and when hormones are in play you don’t argue with it. and as you said, he’s a person of action, so he cooks up a solution – offer her what he thinks she would want. whatever. just please be by my side, we’ll figure out the rest later, as it goes. is it healthy for the future, of course no, but this is for now. i do have hopes that they will be able to go together, to cross whatever needs to be crossed. it might not be easy, and a lot of work. but isn’t any relationship a lot of work? except in this situation it might be even more, but they are both strong and determined characters.
and i agree with all the rest that you say.
I think he does have a bit of a dilemma. Not whether to do it, of course. You are right about that. But how. There are still unanswered questions about their fathers’ deaths, the fact that her mother is alive. The answers must be found. For him, it’s a question of logistics, so to speak.
i feel like we’re arguing the same thing.
“His main dilemma is not how to reconcile, but how to move on from being healer to being a person who can be with YS the way ahjumma described: buying houses, investing in pension plans, etc. ”
“at this point, he hasn’t been able to reconcile his life / job as healer and his growing desire to be with young-shin” which is why “in my eyes, he’s telling her he’d give up being healer to be whoever (park bong-su or someone else, but not healer) she wants him to be.” .
i literally wrote “just because he gives up being healer”, so… moving on from being healer.
“But he is not going to wait until everything is worked out, until he knows exactly who he is, who he wants to be and how to become that “who”. He is too much of n person of action for that.”
i never argued that he was gonna wait, simply that i felt it shows the audience he still has some growing to do and that his solution to “un-sticking” the situation is to completely hack off a part of his identity and create a (permanent) fake one.
“No, he couldn’t. He wasn’t ready to admit to ahjumma that he has feelings for SY. They have a business relationship. At least for now.”
my point exactly.
“This time she maybe started with the business talk, but then she says the word “date”. Not a business meeting. A date. And he says ‘yes’ to a date.”
again, my point. i know he said yes to a date. but she said she is “also kind of asking him for a date”. again, the business aspect was the “in”, which they did not have before, which is why he couldn’t come up with an excuse to meet.
“So he is not exactly “stuck”. He is moving in the right direction.”
“so he offers to completely leave healer behind and be whoever young-shin wants him to be.”
i feel this is a case of miscommunication where we are talking past each other. anyways, i agree with most of what you said and am gonna leave it here. 🙂
Well, I have nothing insightful to add, just my running thoughts/notes as I watched these episodes:
The “found my mother at the park scene”; Junhoo probably didn’t have a coat since there’s no one to make sure he even has one, much less be there to nag him to put it on. Well, maybe Grandma was still alive at this point.
As “Jimmy Olson” was mentioning his military service, it made me think how Jung hoo had to have served and still made no friends during his military service. 🤧
Healer’s face as he watches Jimmy Olson easily making small talk with Young shin’s dad and ahjusshi. While he wears a look of disdain, I think he is also a little envious of that too.
How did Ahjumma make Teacher’s acquaintance? Were those 5 visits confined to the final year as she convinced Teacher to work with her? Or did they meet through a case? Was she his only visitor… ever? (Well, obviously once the two friends were killed and Myung hee was bedridden… but I mean before all that happened).
Teacher went to jail in 1982. Young shin and Jung hoo were not even born yet (I don’t think. Somebody check my math, please!) The group was happy minus Teacher – having babies, buying houses. Did they ever visit him in jail? 🤧
Great questions, beez! Good point, that Jung Hoo would have had to serve in the military himself by now…wonder how it was for him? No friends :(. And I noticed Moon Ho said that he only had one friend listed in his cell phone, and that was his ex. And Young Shin’s dad said, again, in either Ep 13 or 14 that Young Shin didn’t have many friends. So much loneliness! And Cyber Ahjumma!
And haha, you’ve seen the show way more than we have, so if you can’t tell us how Sabu and Ahjumma meet, I don’t think we can! 😄
I think you’re right that in 1982 Young Shin and Healer weren’t born yet. Looks like they were born in 1987, from what I can piece together from Wikipedia. The incident happened in 1992, one year before Teacher got out of jail. And when the incident happened, Ji An was 5 years old (at least, Wikipedia lists the actress who is “5-year-old Ji An.”
Another thought – did Sabu really start the whole “Healer” operation? Or did Cyber Ahjumma? Who hired whom at first?
I’d think it was Ahjumma. She used to be a cyber detective. So she stayed in business, privately. I assume the name was suggested by the teacher. To honor his friends.
Very good point MariaF. Come to think of it, she does seem to run the show, and she’s willing to replace Healer if he’s not working out for her. She also controls his accounts. So your thought of her staying in business, privately, makes sense.
Am I understanding this correctly – it’s a bit funny that being a former detective, she’s willing to do whatever job for whatever client and not ask any questions. You’d think she could build a pretty big evidence file against some of these baddies like Moon Shik. And you’d think her ethical, rule-abiding background wouldn’t allow her to get into some sketchy things.
Then again…if Healer has to get a package from one person and deliver it to another, he’s not looking inside to see what the contents are. And ahjumma probably got so disillusioned by the “higher-ups” covering up that investigation she did when her son died. So she may not feel too much compulsion to keep out of sketchy things.
Just some musings in a quiet moment at work :).
maria, sorry, didn’t see your comment before posting mine. but basically we are on the same page about it. (ahjumma and teacher)
must be ahjumma – she saw the potential, being the brilliant detective she was.
Somebody said in these episodes (I think it was Cyber Detective) that Teacher “served 11 years 2 months released in 1993”. So you’re right. That’s actually what made me start thinking about Teacher’s sacrifice even then and his friends went on with their lives. Not that I’m criticizing them on that point. That’s what you have to do. But I also wonder would they have ended up dead if Teacher had been there with his fighting skills???
I thought it was interesting that Moon Shik apologized for never having visited Teacher in prison – over 11 years! That’s a long time to never go see your friend in prison. I guess Moon Shik couldn’t face him.
I like how Teacher is suspicious of Moon Shik, but always greets him with a smile and pleasantries, while saying devastatingly true things. He’s a well-drawn, colorful character to the end.
And yeah – could Teacher have prevented the other two bears from getting killed if he had been around? I’m thinking he could have smelled a rat way before Jung Hoo and Young Shin’s dads did.
@the_sweetroad -well, the two deceased dads did smell a rat. They were onto some bad guys in a construction company but I don’t think they knew how dangerous the bad guys were. What I meant by Teacher being there is he’s got the fighting skills so he might’ve got Young shin’s dad out alive. Especially since it’s South Korea where guns are rare. I used to laugh every time a show had a gang fight with two-by-four boards and knives until I realized that only detectives (and Mafia types) carry guns and even that is shown differently from show to show. From what I have seen in dramas (I don’t know what they really do on real life), they do not carrying them off duty. And some shows show the detectives having to check their guns out upon arrival at their precinct and turn them back in at end of shift.
That’s just what I’ve seen in dramas. I think I may have seen a street cop carrying a gun but maybe that was a known seedy area of Seoul or something. I need to finally get to the drama Cruel City that every one is always talking about and check out some of the seedier things that go down.
What I meant by Teacher being there is he’s got the fighting skills so he might’ve got Young shin’s dad out alive.
Agree with you! He would’ve been an asset in that whole scene.
And when I said Teacher could have smelled a rat, I wasn’t clear – but I wonder if he would’ve smelled out Moon Shik’s shadiness. The other two guys seemed to trust Moon Shik…but maybe Teacher’s perceptiveness would’ve seen that Moon Shik had changed or gotten involved with some crummy people.
But that might all be assumption. Seems like Teacher’s suspicion of Moon Shik really cemented when he was in prison and learned of everything that had gone down when the three bears went hunting.
But that’s what makes Moon shik so interesting – he wasn’t shady (CORRECTION: at least I don’t think completely shady). I mean, he had feelings for Myung hee but he knew it wasn’t reciprocated so he couldn’t act on it. He became more shady once everything went south. The first sign that his character was weak is when he “lost” Young shin which was a crime of opportunity. He became totally a lost cause once The Elder worked him over (which was understandable) but his continued compliance and acceptance of all they offered him is what condemns him. He could’ve testified as they wanted but then faded away into the general population (if they would’ve let him).
@beez, Totally agree with you that Moon Shik became more and more lost as the story went on.
BUT – when Gil Han and Jung Hoo’s dad visited him at the junkyard and said that they were going to follow some people the next day that were doing some shady business, wasn’t Moon Shik already involved with those people? I have the vague memory that he was already “in” with the baddies, and part of the reason he accompanied Gil Han and JH’s dad was not only to be their driver as they requested, but to protect the baddies. I could be totally wrong, though! But that’s why I thought Teacher could have smelled out Moon Shik if he was already turning bad….before Gil Han’s death happened.
OK, I’m rewatching Episode 11 when Gil Han and JH’s dad visit Moon Shik at the junkyard. They tell Moon Shik, “The intel is foolproof. The slush fund will be moved via car tomorrow. We’re going to see who it is delivered to.” And then the camera focuses on Moon Shik’s face, and to me, he has the look of someone who knows exactly to whom the slush fund is going to be delivered!
Jun Seok says, “I will take photos of the transaction and win an award…” Then they ask to borrow a car, and say there will be a car chase, and they want Moon Shik behind the wheel. He looks away shadily, thinkingly. Then they do a weird slo-mo of Moon Shik looking back up at his friends!
That whole scene is weird when it comes to Moon Shik. So I had thought he was already involved with the Elder/ slush fund people at that point in the game.
It’s in Ep 11, starting around minute 20.
The kicker is Moon Shik was a witness to Gil Han’s death and Jun Seok’s arrest, but it doesn’t sound like he told the truth to anyone.
Moon Ho tells Jung Hoo that the police wouldn’t show Moon Ho the testimony from Jun Seok, and that the autopsy report disappeared. So if I have the sequence of events right, there was already corrupt stuff going on that involved Moon Shik even before he lost little Ji An.
@the_sweetroad – thanks for providing the location of the scene. I’ll have to watch again to see if I see what you see.
@the_sweetroad – nope. Moonshik’s didn’t really want to go along with the reporter friends. They wanted him to supply the car and to be their “getaway driver” (not that they weren’t committing a crime).
Moonshik became a victim because The Elder forced his false witness testimony by physically assaulting him. Moonshik was smart though and used the fact that The Elder could use him and he finagled the best health care for Myung hee. This is where the shades in his character come into play. What would you guys have done in the same situation where someone you love is at death’s door but the devil wanted to make a deal?
Me, personally, I think I would’ve adapted a Healer mentality – going along with almost anything except murder and hurting people. (For me “hurting people” includes not ripping them off financially.) And then see if The Elder would let me get away with that. Or would The Elder threaten Myung hee as we see he threatened Moon ho to keep Moon shik in control.
Hmmmm. I hate sounding like I’m defending him. I’m just trying to look at him objectively, beyond my hated for him.
(I’ve tried the objective thing with Betrayor Mom but even objectively, she SUCKS!)
Hmmmm. I hate sounding like I’m defending him. I’m just trying to look at him objectively, beyond my hated for him.
I appreciate you seeing the shades in Moon Shik – he is a complex character!
Moonshik became a victim because The Elder forced his false witness testimony by physically assaulting him.
This is helpful. So, whether or not Moon Shik was already involved with the baddies, and regardless of what he wanted to do in the aftermath of Gil Han’s death, the Elder found him and forced him to bear false witness to cover up Omega’s corruption and murder. That’s a tough situation for him to be in.
But yes! Watch that part of Ep 11 and see what you think.
I think Gil Han’s death and Myung Hee’s accident occurred on the same day, right? So Moon Shik had been in love with Myung Hee the entire time she was married to Gil Han, and then immediately after Gil Han’s death, Moon Shik was negotiating with the Elder for Myung Hee’s medical care… Or was there a larger time gap there?
Ufff, my head is spinning trying to piece together the backstory timeline. I’m glad we didn’t have to watch all of the backstory all at once before Healer and Young Shin showed up. But having the show weave in and out of it is tripping me up today! 🙂
I might watch ahead to see the scene where Gil Han and Jun Seok track down the slush fund people. I can’t remember what Moon Shik was doing in those moments.
@beez, i see it the same way, totally. that’s why i say moon shik’s character is the most complicated, but also interesting from psychology point of view.
@the_sweetroad – I just rewatched that scene and its interesting that they chose that slight slow beat of Moon shik looking up at his two friends. I don’t know what to make of it since you’ve called my attention to the camera slowing down for that look. In the past, I’ve always thought that was just part of the “make it look like the past/backflash” and that look was just to show us how Moonshik was just a little out of sync with the friends, partly because he did not continue in the pursuit of being a reporter like they were but mainly because of his feelings for Myung hee. I’m going to put this in a spoiler because I’m not sure if we’ve already seen it or not but to be safe
I also think that he wasn’t in cahoots with the Elder then. He was reluctant to go with them, because he didn’t care about all that corruption exposure and fighting for the good guys thing. They would’ve drifted apart, if it weren’t for Myung hee. He needed to stay close to her.
By the way, do you like how the actor portrays Moon shik?
@Maria F – while I never thought about how the actor is playing Moon shik before – YES! I totally believe that he has fallen for The Elder’s rhetoric that they’re “farming people to make a better country”. I believe he truly loves Myung hee and Moon ho and even believes that he can be a great example to “raise” Jung hoo and Young shin who haven’t had the benefit of his wisdom to “bring them up right”. (When I say “raise them”, remember that in S.K., middle aged people view millennials as kids.)
He totally respects the Elder even when his loved ones are threatened, I think he doesn’t even hold resentment that he has to request permission to handle them on his own (despite the threat is clear that they’ll be “removed”).
I also think only his subconscious knows that something is wrong which is why he suffers the mental breaks that we see later.
The question is – is Moon shik so far gone, so deeply corrupted, that should the Elder decide to kill everyone that he loves – would Moon shik still remain a loyal soldier?
Back in the 70’s, someone coined the phrase “characters you love to hate) and the actor Park Sang-Won is killin’ it!
is Moon shik so far gone, so deeply corrupted, that should the Elder decide to kill everyone that he loves – would Moon shik still remain a loyal soldier?
Moon shik wouldn’t.
I was actually asking about the younger actor. I thought he was good. His facial expression were perfect. All those repressed feelings, jealousy, etc.
Yes, he does a great job! That’s what caught my attention in that scene at the junkyard in Ep 11 and made me wonder if he was already corrupt. But I will wait to see the rest of the backstory from the critical day when Gil Han dies, as I don’t remember all the details.
@MariaF – why do you believe Moonshik would leave The Elder?
Not leave, exactly.
He told the Elder after they tried to kill the girl:
“my weaknesses is fatal injury. Once I get hurt, it’s impossible for me to recover. So, I die.”
I believed him. I think he wouldn’t survive this kind of trauma.
@Maria F – since Myung hee believes Young shin is dead, does that mean Moon shik is protecting Young shin? I mean if he were evil thru and thru, he could let the Elder kill Young shin and Myung hee is none the wiser (unless Moon ho grows a pair and decides to spill the beans). 😆
But this is why I waffle back and forth about Moon shik.
Moon ho threaten to tell. That Moon shik had lied about SY being dead before. And that he was involved in her murder now (if something were to happen to YS).
Isn’t Moon Shik actively going after Young Shin by having Secretary Oh sabotage the elevator? I think the situation you described above – letting the Elder kill YS and Myung Hee is none the wiser – would have happened if Healer hadn’t rescued YS from the elevator.
BUT – now the details are fuzzy for me – at that point of the elevator attempted murder, Moon Shik didn’t know yet that YS was Ji An, right? She was just the pesky reporter that Moon Shik wanted to get rid of?
If I remember correctly, Moon Shik didn’t know anything about it. At all.
The Elder (who did know who YS was) gave the direct order to secretary Oh to get rid of her. Before sabotaging the elevator, Secretary Oh asked some boy to call Moon ho and to read him a warning: stop your investigative activities. Moon ho called SY’s home and was told that she’d left to meet him. So he immediately got in touch with ahjumma, who then called Healer.
@MariaF – how did the Elder know at that point who Young shin is? (I don’t think he did but I’m asking in case you saw something I didn’t.)
The Elder and the Weasel were after Young shin to send a message to Moon ho because they knew Moon ho was thinking if he made Young shin famous enough they couldn’t kill her without the public noticing creating investigations into who killed her. SCRATCH THAT. I’m not deleting it because it’s relevant later. But I just remembered the real reason they tried to kill Young shin was they knew Healer was hired to protect and be near her and they were trying to flush him out -make him reveal himself.
Y’all correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure that’s the correct order of what happened.
I found it interesting that at all other times, even though time was of the essence, Healer took the time to put on his “Superman” costume (like when he went to rescue his mother), but when he rushed to save Young shin (and he didn’t know she was in a crashing elevator so he could’ve changed in the car 😆) but he was still dressed as Bong soo when he rescued her. I’m not sure if that has any significance but it makes me feel some type of way that he kissed her while dressed as Bong soo. Maybe That’s just me rooting for our “second lead”. lol
Great point that he didn’t have time to change into his Healer outfit, and that he kissed her as Bong Su! Never noticed that. Go 2nd lead! 🙂
Also, in this rewatch I’m noticing how often the show has Young Shin and Jung Hoo dress alike. For example, in cream-colored sweaters in the cafe scene where she tells him she’ll wait. And in gray sweaters in his lair after she has found him. (Of course, the gray sweater she’s wearing is one of his.) It’s too cute.
and that he kissed her as Bong Su!
she was blindfolded so what does it matter, he could have been dressed as shreck or princess fiona, what mattered is the feeling of meeting of lips!
True, Eda, it didn’t matter to Young Shin, but that kind of visual matters to me :). It wasn’t a black-clad Healer kissing her, but a normally-dressed guy.
Shrek! Hahaha. Not sure I want to think about Shrek kissing Young Shin.
Agreed. We’re discussing Jung hoo’s coping/sorting out his identities when it comes to Young shin.
sweetroad and all, what i meant is that bong soo did not have to change into healer because she was blindfolded and would not be able to see him anyway, (so it was not a danger) that is why i think it was not a matter of identities. healer is still healer when he acts as bong soo or anyone else, he does not become a cleaning lady (like in one of the episodes), just like an actor does not become a king or a thief while acting as one.
It’s a good point. At the end of the day, Bong soo is Healer.
Also, YS wouldn’t allow Bong soo to kiss her, would she? Or anyone else, for that matter. Healer is the only one who is allowed to kiss YS.
eda, you are crazy! 😂😂😂😂😂
that’s quite a statement. why?
It’s not an insult. It’s just something we say when someone says something kind of outrageous or funny.
Eda – It is a highly used expression amongst my circle of friends as well. We use it frequently when someone says or does something that makes us laugh. We always say “Girlfriend, you are cray-cray” and we all get a good laugh. In fact I am smiling as I type this as I am picturing that scenario in my mind. 🤣😂😁
maria, you have it exactly, moon shik did not know and was really angry that it happened without his consent. you can sense it in his conversation with elder. it is suppressed anger, or let’s call it displeasure, but he’s firm in his declaration or request that he will deal with it himself.
This is helpful. I need to go back and watch this scene.
I’d like to clarify. The evil brother suspected who she was. He didn’t know about the hit.
I’m not exactly sure where in the story Moonshik realized who Young shin is, but at the time of the elevator incident, he didn’t know yet plus, he didn’t know that The Weasel had taken it upon himself to kill Young shin.
Moon ho told him, when he came to his house after the incident, full of rage.
The Elder ordered the hit.
@MariaF and @beez, thanks for this; it’s helpful to know that Moon Shik didn’t know what was going down. Pun intended. (Feeling silly tonight.)
He knew (suspected) who she was. Like ahjumma said, SS guys investigated YS after Healer showed up and saved her. The timeline of her disappearance and adoptions, where she was found made him suspect that she was JA. He definitely didn’t know about the hit.
The Elder and the lawyer mistakenly thought that she was trying to get in touch with the evil brother to take advantage of the situation. That’s why the Elder decided to get rid of her. And to warn the younger brother.
Ohhhhhh, yeah. That’s right.
Helpful recap, thanks @MariaF!
who’s the evil brother, do you mean moon ho?
They think that YS approached Moon ho first, and he is already on her side. So now YS is trying to get to Moon shik. They don’t understand her motive though.
does that mean Moon shik is protecting Young shin?
i think he is of double mind on this, he would like for her and the whole issue to disappear as it threatens his relationship with his wife. but he does not dare, paralyzed in a way, afraid of possible exposure, now or later. i am inclined to think that he does not have it in him to protect her, but i think he would not actively seek her death, and even will try to stop if somebody else would try to make her disappear.
@beez, not leave the elder, life as it is would leave him – he’d be in a psychiatric ward, or in the street or even dead, body or mind or both.
maria, i do like moon shik’s acting, young actor and older, i think he’s convincing. and i do not believe that he was in any way connected to elder at that time. but he was never that deeply involved with the cause his friends championed, he just tagged along as they were his friends from college and mh of course.
and i basically agree with all that beez is saying below about moon shik.
would he go along if elder would threatened to kill his loved ones. may be not, especially mh, but who knows, he is in essence a very weak character. and if he would have gone along, he would surely end up in a psychiatric ward, completely out of it.
That’s the crazy thing about Moon Shik. The Elder HAS threatened to kill his loved ones, and he’s gone along with it! Myung Hee has so far escaped danger, but Teacher, Gil Han, Jun Seok, Healer’s mom, and Healer have all been threatened or died at the hands of Elder and his men. Has Moon Ho been threatened as well?
So in my mind, Moon Shik’s loyalty to and love for his friends (his previous loved ones) evaporated a long time ago. Even if he was threatened and beaten by the Elder in 1992, killing Teacher in the present-day, and going after Healer and Healer’s mom make him the ultimate Betrayor. One can argue that they don’t count as his loved ones now, and I agree….but at one point in the past Teacher and his close friends were his loved ones. We already know what he would do if the Elder went after his loved ones, because it has already happened. As you say, Eda, he is a weak person.
For some reason I never felt they were his loved ones. Ever. And, as it was mentioned earlier, journalism wasn’t really his thing either.
Myung hee was.
So I got an impression that the only reason he was hanging out with them was Myung hee. He stayed close to her no matter what.
That makes him a bit creepy, since she was married. It’s not like he knew Gil Han was going to die and he was going to get his chance with her. He needed to move on and find someone else to love.
Hey! MariaF. I object! The ultimate Betrayor title belongs to Jung hoo’s mom. 😆
But, yes, the Elder did threaten Moon ho. I think it was after the “red dress broadcast”. We see Moonshik at the bar telling the Elder “i would be a useless soldier to you without my weaknesses.” His weaknesses are Myung hee and Moon ho. The Elder had given a veiled threat to Moon ho and Young shin (I think) because of the broadcast. I almost went to say Moon shik was protecting Moon ho and Young shin if I recall correctly.
Haha, beez, I called Moon Shik the ultimate Betrayor, not MariaF. Just didn’t want shade getting thrown onto Maria for that 🙂
That’s good if Moon Shik were trying to protect Moon Ho and Young Shin.
That’s the thing, though, the Elder IS willing to go after Moon Ho (one of the two loved ones Moon Shik has left). That’s totally unacceptable to me! Moon Shik’s love for people isn’t a “weakness” as the Elder and he think it is. He’s been totally brainwashed, manipulated, and rewarded by the Elder.
Moon Shik is fighting the wrong people. He should be fighting the Elder.
I was about to ask “What did I say?”
Oops! Sorry MariaF! Then @the_sweetroad – but you already know! lolololol
But his loved ones are Moon shik’s weakness because the Elder could have never controlled him if not for them. Although, I get what you mean in normal instances about loved ones.
once involved in betrayal of close friends, very difficult to get away from what has been done by him and besides, the elder who providing MONEY, POSITION and most importantly, ways to take care of the hospital bills for mh. also, elder would not let him go easily, it’s like mafia, elder would have kept him under strict control. now, i am not justifying moon shik, seems he accepted this whole situation without reservations and without even thinking of a way out. but once you sell your soul to the devil, how do you shake off the devil? moon shik is a very complicated character, as i said in my previous comments.
sweetroad, it might have been ahjumma who told teacher in prison about the deaths of his friends, since the others never visited him. how else would he know?
“Never visited him” WHAAAAAA! Writer-nim you’re killing me!😭
Assuming that’s true, and Moon shik isn’t just referring to the one year that Myung hee has been hospitalized, that makes Teacher’s loyalty to his friends all the more [I don’t have the right word to express it] 😥
Gil Han and Jun Seok must have visited him, though, between 1982 – 1992, right?? Maybe just Moon Shik didn’t visit him? You bring up a good point that it could have just been the one year between 1992 – 1993 that no one visited Teacher. (Gil Han and Jun Seok having passed away, and Myung Hee sleeping all day, after all).
Moon Shik apologized
teacher…greets him with a smile and pleasantries,
sarcastic, very sarcastic smile.
Yup. I love that part of his character, the sarcastic smiles coupled with razor-sharp perception and a willingness to tell the truth and challenge Moon Shik. It makes me laugh just a little bit when Teacher Sr (older) goads Moon Shik (older), and Moon Shik says (very calmly), “I am very angry right now.”
@the_sweetroad – verrrrry interesting. It’s almost as if Moon shik doesn’t know how to be angry or he’s had to suppress his anger in front of the Elder for so long that he doesn’t even realize he’s smiling.
If you think about it Moon shik has been suppressing his emotions for so long – First over his love for Myung hee, which you can feel his feelings at Jian’s birth – “she should’ve been mine”. The “she” in this instance probably applies to Myung hee and Jian. And now as he walks a fine line with The Elder.
I’ve asked, but no one here has answers – what actions would you have taken in Moon shik’s place (of being beaten to testify a certain way and then accepting or rejecting the role in the Elder’s organization)?
The best thing for him would have been to tell the truth even though he might have been killed. Better die with a clean conscience than lead that kind of soulless and corrupt life.
I agree, @Alexandra. I would hope that if I were put in that situation I would die with a clean conscience. That would be the heroic, integrity-filled thing to do.
The mitigating factor with Moon Shik is that he would be afraid of what would happen to Myung Hee if he didn’t comply, right? That is tough….
But he has left a terrible legacy behind him by complying with the Elder’s wishes.
@Alexansandra – I hear you, but that’s not taking into account Myung hee’s medical condition. He probably thought he could save her life and that she would also be healthy and not in the state she’s in now.
Yes, these are the impossible choices of drama land!
@beez, The group was happy minus Teacher – having babies, buying houses. Did they ever visit him in jail
ya, i had this question too. and how did they make money to live this lifestyle? they were still illegal journalists, as far as i can understand. that’s why they were killed, right, standing in the way of the elder.
and why didn’t they visit teacher? afraid that this might implicate them and they will be forced to give up their controversial journalism?
in regards to ahjumma visiting teacher. she was the head detective at that time. she might have smelled a rat, she might have been assigned to this case initially, or may be the case just fell into her lap and picked her interest. when she got disillusioned with her job, she hooked up with teacher, she saw what they can do together. that is my understanding of the issue.
I never heard (maybe I missed it) that Teacher’s case had anything to do with Ahjumma’s case(es)? She was a cyber detective and for some reason (his age – but that’s me stereotyping him) I don’t think Teacher is techno savvy.
The impression is also given that the reporter friends are working for a legitimate paper. We’d have to Google when the press changed. That would be a very fast change just from the time of the friends being college age (?) in the late 80’s to 1992. But things do happen extremely fast in S.K.’s history from impoverished nation to being ranked among the wealthiest within 60 years.