Spoiler Zone: Healer Episodes 11 & 12

Welcome to the Spoiler Zone, everyone!

This is for those of you who want to discuss spoilers, from a “I’ve seen the show and WOW now I’m noticing all these other details in retrospect” sort of angle.

Here’s a Spoiler Zone for you to dig as deep as you’d like, into spoiler territory, WITHOUT the need for spoiler tags or other warnings.

My only request is, PLEASE BE EXTRA MINDFUL OF WHERE YOU ARE COMMENTING. Meaning, please don’t get mixed up, and start talking spoilers in the Open Thread, which could seriously mar the watch experience for a new viewer, OR, a viewer who would really prefer to have the rewatch feel as fresh as possible.

Other than that, READER BEWARE: SPOILERS AHEAD!!!

For the main discussion of episodes 11 & 12, which only deals with spoilers up to the point of the group watch, go here.

ENJOY YOUR SPOILER ZONE, MY FRIENDS! ❤️

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phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago

Your posts below remind me of Asian Boss’s video which looks at children that are not wanted – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ny8W0EDMfA

MariaF
MariaF
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

Thank you for posting a link to the video. It’s heartbreaking and inspiring at the same time.

phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago
Reply to  MariaF

MariaF – Asian Boss has done some interesting work. Check them out sometime if you have a minute. They are on YT and FB.

MariaF
MariaF
2 months ago

I’ve read an article once about abandoned children in S. Korea.

A 7 y.o. boy was left by his mother at a bus station. She told him to wait and never came back.

When the boy found his birth mother after he grew up, she explained to him that her marriage was bad and she needed a new start.

So, not only she abandoned the boy herself, she didn’t let him to live with his father and grandmother either. She lied to them that the boy had died.

The boy ended up in an orphanage system.

“Children died of curable illnesses and older ones abused younger ones on a daily basis, he claimed.
“When a new kid arrived and cried because he was scared, the ritual was to cover his body with a blanket and beat him with a bat until he stopped,” he said.
Rooms and clothes were filthy, the food often rotten and inedible.”

There is a multi-media documentary project “Side by Side”, which records stories of abandoned and adopted children from S. Korea. These stories are heartbreaking.

And we think Healer’s mother was bad!

Also, no wonder FL and ML in “One spring night” are considered to be some kind of heroes for letting the kid to live with them.

Last edited 2 months ago by MariaF
the_sweetroad
2 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

That’s so heartbreaking! Especially with the lying about the child being dead to other family members, too. There’s so much injustice and wrongdoing wrapped up in that one story.

beez
2 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

That’s horrible. But I heard that because of how the nation been criticized over their views on adoption that a lot has changed over the last 40 years. (But bloodline is still the most important thing.)

I feel so badly for the Korean-American adoptee children who are adults now who feel disconnected from America but don’t speak Korean and go back to Korea to find their families. There’s a few documentaries on that subject. Netflix has one called Seoul Searching.

MariaF
MariaF
2 months ago
Reply to  beez

But many of them think that they were lucky to get adopted. In Korea being an orphan negatively affects not only your personal life (marriage, etc), but even your education and job opportunities. You can’t get a good job, end up on the streets.

Things are changing, of course. But Korea went from feudalism to capitalism in a pretty short period of time, so old customs persist.

beez
2 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

@MariaF – true. But many also struggle with identity and racism, especially those adopted into families that don’t live near any other Asian communities in America.

MariaF
MariaF
2 months ago
Reply to  beez

Oh absolutely. Their lives weren’t easy, for many reasons. But I don’t think we should underestimate the stigma of being an orphan in S. Korea and struggles these people have to go through as children and as adults. My understanding is their disadvantages don’t disappear when they grow up. Despite many issues and obstacles, being adopted and living with good families in other countries, especially in the US, gave them amazing opportunities. Of course, not all adoptive parents are great, so… It’s a very complicated issue.

eda harris
eda harris
2 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

i just finished the chinese drama “ode to joy”, where the FL is an orphan from china of course, was adopted by an american couple, but she’s brilliant, graduates from the best university and becomes a business/financial genius. she returns to china to look for her brother who was adopted by a chinese couple, and they lost contact with each other. anyway, even that she has heavy psychological issues, she is on top of the professional world, rich and successful and beautiful on top of everything. but being an orphan does not interfere with her getting a job, or being a woman desired by the most attractive and rich men there. so i am telling this, as i am thinking that it must be deferent in china. but both of these countries have been exchanging and influencing customs and traditions for years, as the chinese conquered parts of china many times in history. and yet the chinese seem to be more adopted to the modern views.

phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago
Reply to  eda harris

Eda – Ode to Joy 1 and 2 are marvelous.

eda harris
eda harris
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

phl1, may be you can help me. i watched ode to joy 1 on viki, but they do not have season 2. i found it on youtube only. the first episode was fine, the second lost it’s subs after about 20min, then it came back and then lost again. after that none of the episodes had subs. do you know what is going on and were did you watch season 2?
thanks.

eda harris
eda harris
1 month ago
Reply to  eda harris

phl and sweetroad, since you both are also into chinese productions, i just finished (rewatching) painted skin, the resurrection– it is a visually stunning piece of art, it almost felt that it is rearranging the very molecules of my visual perception in my brain. it is up there with my other favorites in the same line – hero and house of flying daggers, both by zhang yimou (my favorite).

phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago
Reply to  eda harris

Eda – I also enjoyed it. Viki recently picked up Brotherhood of Blades 2014 (rental though) which is excellent. You can also find some good wuxia movies on Amazon Prime.

Not enough can be said about Hero – a visual masterpiece and I own the DVD as I watch it every so often. I need to see it again as Trent mentioned something I need to check up on. House of Flying Daggers (Kaneshiro Takeshi – sigh) – that scene in the room of drums and that dance – whew! I have seen all the IP Man releases and I loved Fearless. The Yin-Yang Master: Dream of Eternity (2020) with Mark Chao and the The Yin Yang Master (2021) with Chen Kun and Zhou Xun are both available on Netflix and are great too.

I am planning to write something for Fangurl on wuxia movies which I am seriously behind on. I will have to take the Walk of Shame for my tardiness. Still not back to speed physically.

I am wondering if you have seen Ten Miles of Peach Blossoms/Eternal Love or Love and Destiny? FG loved 10 Miles but she dropped Love an Destiny (TROP’s NiNi is in this). I loved them both.

Also – one CDrama made recently – The Longest Day in Chang’an (on my Top Three CDramas) on Viki. The music is out of this world and the visuals are stellar. It was an eyegasm of gorgeous lighting, sets and costumes. Romance is understated (but quite nice). Director and screenwriter – Cao Dun. Full of action and thrills.

Last edited 1 month ago by phl1rxd
the_sweetroad
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

I love Hero, phl1rxd! One of my favorite movies, especially back when I was still watching Chinese martial arts movies. The color schemes for each story are just breathtaking. And of course

Hero spoiler
everyone dies, just like in a good Chinese martial arts tragedy :).
But it all seems to make good sense in this movie.

I need to watch Eternal Love….have heard so many good things about it. And Eda has been talking to me about Nirvana in Fire for a while.

eda harris
eda harris
1 month ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

everyone dies, just like in a good Chinese martial arts tragedy :).
but you must admit, it is the most beautiful deaths i have ever seen. you can’t even get too upset, the visuals of it just captivates any other form of any other emotion.

the_sweetroad
1 month ago
Reply to  eda harris

Agreed! Beautiful deaths 🙂 . And the visuals are so gorgeous. I just love that each story has its own color palette.

eda harris
eda harris
1 month ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

no words, but this is the “trade mark” of zhang yimou – always expressing through colors. i think he is the only one in this category, at least i do not know of others. and this is truly my favorite feature in a production, this and music. ultimate ecstasy in colors.

phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

Sweetroad – Ah Hero! I agree – the color schemes were magnificent.

Eternal Love – 10 Miles of Peach Blossoms – oh so good.

I am so sorry that you missed the NIF1 Group Watch last year. Do take a peek at it if you decide to jump into NIF1, as there are character reviews pinned on top and they should assist you. Fangurl did a tremendous job with the reviews – thorough and concise as always and they are helpful as this is a complicated drama. Read the comments post watch as that will also allow you to pick up things you may have missed. We did some deep digging on this GW. I am a NIF1 nerd and I love this drama.

beez
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

@the_sweetroad – I was not a fan of Chinese dramas but I loved NIF. It actually made me change my mind and watch a few other Chinese dramas.

the_sweetroad
1 month ago
Reply to  beez

Good to know, beez! I will have to check that out and Eternal Love.

I just watched Healer Ep 13 and am about to watch 14 either today or tomorrow. Haven’t checked out the threads yet but I’m sure we’ll all find lots of interesting things to talk about! 🙂

beez
1 month ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

@the_sweetroad – I’ve been busy myself so I’m working my way over there.

the_sweetroad
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

Did you watch Reset, phl1rxd? Eda and I just watched it recently on YouTube. Very well done!

phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

Sweetroad – Yes indeed. I finished it the day the last episode aired – I was pretty into it. Yes, it was done very well, and as expected from Daylight Entertainment.

eda harris
eda harris
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

i talked beez into watching lost in 1949, so i am watching it with her, actually for me it’s rewatching, just to keep her company and encourage her. she must change her view on my favorite chen kun. and then i promised her to watch chuno. after that it’s back to chinese. i was eyeing the rebel princes, did anybody see it? also, winter begonia is on my list for the longest, as i absolutely love farewell my concubine, and it is supposed to be sort of like this. also i saw the chinese opera live and it totally intrigued me.
but you still didn’t tell me if you know where to watch ode to joy 2? and what’s with the screwed up subs?
and thanks for telling me that ni ni (after trop, she’s the best of the best for me) is in love and destiny – definitely goes on my list.
and i also rewatch hero periodically. and of course i did see almost everything with chen kun, although the yin-yang master did not impress me too much (i also must confess, somehow i am not a fan of mark chao – do not even know why). it’s not even that his acting is not up to my standard, i just do not like him. sorry.

phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago
Reply to  eda harris

Eda – Thanks for letting me know about Mark Chao. No need to apologize! We all have those actors that somehow clash with us. I have those too 😏😏. You know them when you stop watching everything they are in. I know these actors are probably great human beings. Maybe a previous character they played hit me the wrong way or gave me drama shock. You are not alone in that boat.

Winter Begonia – I did watch this when it came out and after a few stops and starts I got into the groove. Great Chinese opera in this drama which I also happen to enjoy. I truly bonded with the characters by the end.

All I have to do is type Farewell My Concubine and I tear up. Ugh – the best!

I am still at E2 of Lost in 1949. I sat it down and chased something new and shiny. I will get back to it.

I saw Rebel Princess and it stars Zhang Zi Yi who has graced our screens in so many wuxia classics. I dropped RP at E21 and my comments were “No chemistry between leads. Had to drop.” What I will say is that the production value is very, very high (Eda you will 💖 the costumes) and you also may jive with the drama and see and feel something I was unable to. Ignore the netizen’s negativity on this drama and take a peek at the trailer.

Last edited 1 month ago by phl1rxd
eda harris
eda harris
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

i love-love zhang zhi yi. but i also fell in love with yuan hong (did you like him in the rebel?)after the legend of the condo heroes, where he is sort of an evil character, but i had a lot of sympathy for him, and i very much appreciated his acting. i must admit that i was not that crazy about him in trop, but of course chen kun and nini soaked up all my love in trop. did you finish the condo heroes, i think you mentioned that you started it.(a little side note: for whatever reason i like chinese actresses much more than koreans, and i like korean actors more than chinese. of course, there are always exceptions).
and yes, you are so right, i am attracted to the costumes, palaces, interior designs, scenery – so at least i will love those in rebel princes, but it’s not right now, too many immediate dramas and movies piled on top of each other.

phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago
Reply to  eda harris

Eda – I cannot remember what he looked like while I watching RP. Yuan Hong! I am still working my way through Condor Heroes and he is so young in this.

I cannot lie Eda – when he is next to Hu Ge in Condor Heroes, I see no one but Hu Ge. Poor Yuan Hong fades out of sight. 🤣😂😅

eda harris
eda harris
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

yes phl, yuan hong, he’s young and promising! do pay more attention to him, please, and of course young hu ge is ALREADY a hu ge – can’t argue about that. but yuan hong does stand on his own in this particular drama, and i am quite hard to please when it comes to acting. because of this drama he picked my interest.

phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago
Reply to  eda harris

@Eda – I thought you might be interested to read about Hu Ge and Yuan Hong’s friendship. They are besties from way back and must have had a good time filming Condor Heroes together. Just google “Yuan Hong and Hu Ge”. Note Eda, I did try to google “Hot and Hotter” but unfortunately only got hair dryer links. 🤣😂😅😁😆🙄

eda harris
eda harris
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

i did not know they were friends, how interesting. do you know whether it started from this particular drama? , they were both so young. but i’ll definitely google it.
i did not really understand the “hot and hotter”. what was this about?
by the way, i think i told you about the movie falling flowers by director huo jianqi. (he’s part of the “fifth generation”, up there with zhang yimou). i love his sensitivities. just watched another movie of his love in the 1980s. the scenery of remote china is probably the most breathtakingly beautiful EVER. you need to see it to believe it. but… the story… on the surface so simple and unpretentious, BUT – the soft sadness or the sad softness – you completely sink into it, like falling into a dreamy collection of white clouds, or warm waters of a deep ocean – the feeling is unbelievable, unavoidable. it takes you into your own depth of emotions and brain waves.
check this out.

phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago
Reply to  eda harris

Eda – the Hot and Hotter was a joke – a compliment to both of the actors. I will def check out Love in the 1980s and I did watch Falling Flowers.

They went to college together and roomed together and Hu Ge was the best man at his wedding. When Hu Ge had his accident, Yuan Hong was there for him.

Last edited 1 month ago by phl1rxd
eda harris
eda harris
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

what did you think of falling flowers?
by the way, there is another movie (biographical, about the same writer xiao hong), with a very different approach, but also interesting and it got a lot of awards. the director is famous ann hui, and the fl is tang wei (she’s one of the best in china – i absolutely love her). the movie is called the golden era. i liked it, but falling flowers remains my favorite, as it is pure poetry.

eda harris
eda harris
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

phl, i googled, and sooooooooooo enjoyed reading about these two. saw their picture together in the dorm – adorable. no wonder they had such incredible chemistry in the “condo heroes“, it was way more interesting than their relationships with the women. actually that’s what sustained my patience throughout this drama, which sometimes would “dim it’s light”
the return of the condo heroes are going to come out soon on viki. do you know anything about it (i don’t) and are you going to watch it?

beez
1 month ago
Reply to  eda harris

@eda – I should be back in the swing of things and pick up 1949 at episode 12 (I think that’s where I left off. It might’ve been 13. I’ll have to watch the end of each of those episodes to see where I left off.)

eda harris
eda harris
1 month ago
Reply to  beez

@beez, (1949)
great, i am ready to join you whenever you are ready.
by the way, i’m on CHUNO. although it was not on the top of my list, as promised, i had no choice, as it is YOUR favorite.

beez
1 month ago
Reply to  eda harris

CHUNO! My eyes actually teared up to know you’re watching it. 😆 BUT I don’t want you to feel obligated if you’re not enjoying it.

phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago
Reply to  beez

@Beez – I hope Eda loves it! 💖

beez
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

Me too! 🤞

eda harris
eda harris
1 month ago
Reply to  beez

beez, too bad i was not aware of chuno years ago, i would not need a man in my life, for real. it would be just enough to look at CHUNO!!!!!!

beez
1 month ago
Reply to  eda harris

Forget music soothing the savage breast! It’s the wonder of tan six packs glistening in the sun. 😉

eda harris
eda harris
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

by the way, brotherhood on blades is on viki, and bob 2 is coming soon.

phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago
Reply to  eda harris

Eda – I have BOB1 on DVD as yeah, I liked it that much. 😉

I am looking for to BOB2! Yeah!

eda harris
eda harris
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

phl, i am right in the middle of bob1, but got sort of stuck. it is purely wuxia, but wuxia only. for me, i need more from a movie, it kind of lacks the “meat on the bones”, do you know what i mean? am i missing something? o may be, as i said before, am i too critical?

phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago
Reply to  eda harris

@Eda – No problem. 😉 Wuxia only is ok for me. I love Chang Chen and I was moved by his performance. There is something about him that I find fascinating and you might see what I mean if you get a chance to catch Love and Destiny. I also see that he is BOB2 so I will definitely not miss that.

Eda – please feel totally free to like what you like, and not like what you do not like. This is a no judgement zone. 💖😘

eda harris
eda harris
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

not to worry, i know. just sometimes interesting to hear other opinions, just to check if i am missing out on something.

eda harris
eda harris
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

phl1, fearless of 2006 or 2019? which one are you taking about?

phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago
Reply to  eda harris

@Eda – Sorry, I am referring to the 2006 production.

Last edited 1 month ago by phl1rxd
eda harris
eda harris
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

i’ll check it out. thanks.

eda harris
eda harris
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

ten miles – no, not yet, you might have guessed it, mark chao is in my way, and he’s in the center of it. but may this drama is fated to change my mind on him. i’ll have to try.

phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago
Reply to  eda harris

Eda – I watched it back in 2017 and it was on Viki then. I found it on Amazon Prime (has Geo Restrictions which may not affect you) and over on the dark side.

eda harris
eda harris
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

o, i didn’t see this comment yet. so, are you talking about ode to joy2? it is not on viki and not on prime. and i am not clever enough to use the dark side. as i said, i found it on youtube, but the subs are non existent.

phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago
Reply to  eda harris

My bad Eda – it is Ode to Joy S1, not S2 on Amazon Prime. Your last best option is to go to the dark side.

beez
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

– I’ve been trying to lure @eda harris to the dark side but she’s got cold feet. 😆

phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago
Reply to  beez

@Beez – I found that as long as I use my desktop to view, the pop ups do not appear. I do not use my phone. It is always my last resource, but I have used it quite often over the years. The real issue is that I hate sitting at my desk to watch drama. I want that comfy couch experience, you know what I mean? My old bones! 👵

beez
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

– you know I know. 😆 But I watch the Dark Side on my FirestickTv stick. It has an app for the internet (Amazon’s browser is called SILK). So not only am I laid back in an easy chair, but remote, popcorn and other essentials are handily near by.

Every blue moon I’ll watch the Dark Side on my phone using this (see image) ad blocker app. It’s not perfect but I’ve mastered avoiding the popups both on the Firestick Silk app and on the ad blocker.

Screenshots_2022-03-31-14-37-21.png
Last edited 1 month ago by beez
phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago
Reply to  beez

@Beez – Thank you! I have been meaning to ask you about that as I believe you posted something to that effect last year (or was it the year before?). Anyway, I use a Firestick as well as Roku box. I am going to try this and if it does not work I am going to reach out via FG. I have mainly been using my Roku but if I can do this it is would be so great. So do you install this ad blocker on your TV using your Firestick?

beez
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

– I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear. The adblocker is only on my phone. But when I open it, it looks like any other browser. I’m attaching a screenshot of what the Adblocker looks like when I open it.

The Firestick has an app that just says “internet”. But once you open it, it is actually SILK. I totally love watching on the Firestick because using the remote control is so easy. I’ve been watching the Dark Side on Firestick for many, many years. At first, it didn’t recognize the Firestick as a true browser (or something) because somehow it had zero popups! But alas that’s changed. Currently, I only run into popups when I hit the play bottom and I quickly hit the “back” button and then quickly hit play button again. But ye ol’ Darkness being how it is, periodically it will have a little rectangle ad in a corner of the screen (especially if I select one of the different servers that the Darkness offers). Then that will go away for several weeks. Then it will have TWO rectangles in the corner for a few days and then that goes away for a few weeks.

@Beez: I’ve deleted just the screenshot, since that was the problematic part of your comment! ~KFG ❤️

Last edited 1 month ago by kfangurl
phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago
Reply to  beez

@Beez – Not sure if above response is correct as you ask FG to delete, but I am going to try this anyway. If I can get this to work I will be eternally grateful to you Miz B! 😘🥰

beez
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

– it’s correct but I’m in a panic!!!!! I didn’t think that The Darkness title would be showing when I added the screenshot! I’ve emailed KFG but it’s 5:30am in Singapore.

beez
1 month ago
Reply to  beez

– just go to the Firestick app store and search “silk browser”. Ignore everything else it offers but select the blue-green app that just says “internet”. Once you open that, you’ll know what to do. I think the first page is automatically bookmarked for your Amazon account. I always remove that bookmark just because if you have young kids, they could order anything and if your tv were stolen, your account is right there open with no need to log in.

phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago
Reply to  beez

@Beez – thank you so much. I am working on it now.

beez
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

Let me know once you get it working. (Or if you don’t but I can’t imagine why it wouldn’t work.)

phl1rxd
phl1rxd
1 month ago
Reply to  beez

@Beez – I understand completely what you are saying but the reason that we do not type it out is the bots can pick up the typed name but you have a screenshot and I do not think that the bots can see the connection between the site and the object. I think you are safe.

Last edited 1 month ago by phl1rxd
beez
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

– I thought about that but it stll didn’t soothe my panic. I kept thinking KFG is going to think I’m clumsily (but unintentionally) singlehandedly trying to destroy her blog!

eda harris
eda harris
1 month ago
Reply to  phl1rxd

phl, i feel exactly, but exactly, the same. hate watching anything on the computer, the big screen is so much more entertaining, i must see each detail, it’s my obsession. so i give up some things that i am dying to see, but can not compromise on the computer.

beez
1 month ago
Reply to  eda harris

@eda – you guys can’t cast the image to your tv screens? Well phl1rxd, you shouldn’t have to now since you already have the fire tv stick (I’ll have to see if you’ve answered me elsewhere to see if you got it up and running). @eda – maybe your son can figure out how to cast your computer screen to your tv for you.

beez
2 months ago

Y’all – can we discuss Healer’s mom? I realize in episode 10, we finally got Teacher’s stupid reason for abandoning Healer, but I like it better than Betrayor Mom’s reason.

I’m putting this in the spoiler thread in case you guys have points from future episodes that might make me see some excuse for Betrayor Mom.

BM received a threat from Moon shik to stop her protests and investigation into her husband’s death and false accusation if she didn’t want Jung hoo to get hurt. How does that translate into leave your son?

All she had to do is stop her investigation, which she did. It still doesn’t change the fact that if they wanted to, they could use hurting Jung hoo against her. Is she just stupid? I could see her leaving if she first moved her mom and Junghoo to another town or something (under fake names) and then continued to campaign-protest for her dead husband. That’s the only way her actions would make sense (and be a bit forgivable).

I must admit that her joy whenever she meets Jung hoo seems so real and adorable but I can’t get past the totally unnecessary hurt she caused a small child. The kind of hurt that stays with a person for life and affects all your relationships. I can only wonder at what type of insecurities Jung hoo brings to his relationship with Young shin that we’ll never see because we get the happy ending version.

the_sweetroad
2 months ago
Reply to  beez

Totally agree with you, @beez. I was just wondering this myself. If Moon Shik were threatening Jung Hoo, wouldn’t she WANT to stay with Jung Hoo and make sure he was OK? How could she leave him like that, and leave him with grandma? Surely she and her new husband could have together made sure Jung Hoo lived a life free from harm. I mean, that should have been one of the first things she told her new beau, that she had to protect her son, and could he help out with that? Jung Hoo was so young and vulnerable. He had just lost his dad, and then she left him as well. It doesn’t seem to make sense.

The first time I watched the show I was pretty surprised Jung Hoo had such a great relationship with his mom. Too bad she couldn’t tell him what had really happened way back when – their relationship could have been even stronger. I don’t remember what happens in future episodes as far as whether omma and Jung Hoo have more truthful conversations. But for his sake I wish they would.

beez
2 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

@the_sweetroad – he’s just so sweet with her (grrrrrr) but it is endearing to watch. Back when they were sharing the ice cream and she asked “why do you order this if you don’t like sweet red beans?” (It might’ve been a different treat nane.) But he says “But you like them.” 😭

the_sweetroad
2 months ago
Reply to  beez

It is endearing. She’s the only one he’s that “open” with. It’s weird, though – I feel like Healer initiates more with his mom, seeks her out, and is sweet to her. And maybe I’m forgetting right now, but is it an equal relationship where she pursues him as well? If not, why is Healer so dang deferential to her? She was excited to get his text and she did buy him a new coat for her cafe meeting with him….but it did make me wonder how often she initiates with him. But like I said, I might be forgetting.

Last edited 2 months ago by the_sweetroad
beez
2 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

@the_sweetroad – I think you’re right. Although I know we’ll see another scene later on between them. I think he told her “I won’t be contacting you for a while” but I don’t think he told her not to contact him. (He knew the conversation was being listened to so I don’t know how much of it was “real”.) My impression is that it’s always him reaching out though. I do wish we were privy to how their relationship healed to this point. She seems to stupid (or selfish) to be the one who reached out because she went all those years not reaching out (at least 5 judging by the age of her new son) and I can’t imagine Healer being as angry as he was reaching out to her, so I really wonder how that came about.

He was such a “little man” when he talked to her new husband when he took the coat. I just can’t even handle thinking about his question about his new little half brother “How come he can live with you but I can’t?” I’m feeling the water works again.

the_sweetroad
2 months ago
Reply to  beez

I know. Poor little Healer’s heart. Being left by everyone and seeing your own half-brother have a mom and a dad, something you used to have. But now you have to make it on your own….I keep thinking that he could have turned out so much worse than he did. But whereas he was looked after (by grandma, by Healer Sr.), his heart would have received so many hurtful messages. It didn’t strike me when I first watched it as it’s striking me this time around. He needs a lot of therapy.

beez
2 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

@the_sweetroad – just think of how hurt people are when parents favor their full sibling even though both parents are right they’re with both of them. Magnify that by 1000 for poor Jung hoo who was left only to see his mom with her new kid. Kind of how when a dad leaves for a new marriage and his new kids live in a better home, receive more attention than when that dad lived with them. 😥

Alexandra
Alexandra
2 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

In a later episode Healer says that mum couldn’t contact him (because he didn’t gave her his number or anything), only he could contact her.

the_sweetroad
2 months ago
Reply to  Alexandra

Ah, thanks for the reminder @Alexandra! OK, so that’s why he had to be the one to always initiate with her.

Last edited 2 months ago by the_sweetroad
MariaF
MariaF
2 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

Ahjumma might even change his number periodically. Tradecraft.

beez
2 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

@MariaF – That makes sense 🤔

the_sweetroad
2 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

True. That does make sense.

MariaF
MariaF
2 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

Surely she and her new husband could have together made sure Jung Hoo lived a life free from harm

My understanding is that it was her new husband who didn’t want her first son (a boy from a different bloodline) to be part of their family. New life…
I think this kind of a situation is not uncommon in patriarchal societies (like Korean).

beez
2 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

@MariaF – I don’t think so but maybe I missed it. I know the new hubby said he begged and begged her to get married. And it’s probably true that he and his extended family wouldn’t have wanted Jung hoo based on what we’ve seen in other dramas, but I don’t remember it actually being said by new hubby or Betrayor Mom. Although Betrayor Mom telling Junghoo that it would be strange to have kept any photos or keepsakes probably confirms that’s the case.

But, like you said, you would think they would’ve made sure the boy was… I can’t even continue cause the very fact that they don’t seem to have been in touch with Teacher says how pitiful their attention and lack of care actually is. I mean they know Jung hoo has no one. Not any one. Not a living soul. And yet… 😟😥

the_sweetroad
2 months ago
Reply to  beez

Yeah – Healer has no one. Such a deep betrayal by a mother. At least if we look at it with the values we have. 🙁

beez
2 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

I think any culture would perceive that as a betrayal. I think if his grandmother had survived it could be looked at differently but since she and her husband didn’t step in once grandma died it’s just inexcusable. The reason I believe Korean society would disapprove of this is Jung hoo is her bloodline and Koreans (in general) take in their family (siblings, cousins, nieces & nephews) when they have nowhere else to go. Jung hoo had no way to feed or shelter himself.

I’m ready to start cussin’ now 🤬

the_sweetroad
2 months ago
Reply to  beez

AND if we think about his future – and how much of a stigma being an orphan IS – you’d think she would have thought about that. For his own future prospects of marriage and having a family, the mom could have stuck around and made sure her firstborn son actually “came from” a family.

Of course, back then his dad was being accused of murder, so no one wanted Jung Hoo to be seen as a murderer’s son….and I know that played in to her decision to leave.

Complicated….

UGH! Moon Shik and his awful betrayal of all his friends and the subsequent generations!

beez
2 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

@the_sweetroad- I’m not buying the whole “he’s a murderer’s son” bit from Betrayor Mom though. While it’s true that that’s a terrible thing that happens in S.K., Jung hoo would still be susceptible to those types of accusations whether she’s with him or not. It’s not like she changed his name or anything. She’s far more recognizable as the murderer’s wife because her face probably appeared on the news. Who’s to say they wouldn’t have been calling her that and stigmatizing her new family because of it? I think it’s all excuses. She moved on with her life. When I think about the gall of her to even discuss her new kid and husband with Junghoo… even though he asked her. She shouldn’t even be able to raise her eyes to look at him when that subject comes up, much less talk about it so casually. ooooooo!

I guess you all had already figured it out – that she left to get married – a long time ago. Whereas I always assumed she met the new husband a couple of years down the line. I was always trying to figure out if it was just a writer’s goof that no plausible expansion was given when it’s been right there in front of my eyes the entire time! My eyes! MY EYES!

Last edited 2 months ago by beez
the_sweetroad
2 months ago
Reply to  beez

That’s true, @beez, that she would have been stigmatized by being the suspected murderer’s wife. In that sense I’m surprised her new husband even wanted to marry her – wouldn’t that reflect poorly on him, too?

I agree with what you said earlier (somewhere) that it would have been good to see how Healer’s relationship with his mom healed to the point where they can be cordial and caring now. If he’s still currently this angry with Sabu for abandoning him, how in the world did he get over his anger toward his mom for her abandonment? There’s some emotionally healthy stuff going on there that almost seems out of character now. I mean, I’m glad for it…but now that I think about it, it’s almost too good to be true.

beez
2 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

I’m glad for it…but now that I think about it, it’s almost too good to be true.” quoting the_sweetroad

ditto

MariaF
MariaF
2 months ago
Reply to  beez

Well, I think we should accept the fact that there are a few storylines in this show that are either too good or too bad to be true.
Elements of plot development…

beez
2 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

@MariaF – In response to your comment on the open thread about Healer not being able to peel an onion –

MariaF – we only saw one scene of Healer and Teacher cooking and that was a bumbling mess when Teacher tried to make seaweed soup (I think it must’ve been for one of Jung hoo’s birthdays.) My guess is they probably ate the way Healer does now.

(I realized that the backflash to the seaweed soup has not happened yet so I deleted this comment from the open thread and just popped it in here)

MariaF
MariaF
2 months ago
Reply to  beez

That was when Healer was a child. When the teacher was leaving, Healer also had some kind of dish ready. Maybe it was the same soup?

Either way, I might be wrong, but I can’t imagine someone not knowing how to peel an onion, especially in Korea. Food is so important there. Healer lived with his grandmother for a while. He never saw her peel an onion? It’s not a big deal, but I think it’s strange.

beez
2 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

@MariaF – On the birthday that Teacher left, Junhoo was boiling ramen.

MariaF
MariaF
2 months ago
Reply to  beez

Its fathers’ bloodlines that are important, not mothers’.

the_sweetroad
2 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

We are all on at the same time. Fun! Except – I’m not getting ANY work done. LOL.

MariaF
MariaF
2 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

Me neither!

beez
2 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

Yes, father’s on paper (the registration) but bloodlines from both as far who you take in as family.

MariaF
MariaF
2 months ago
Reply to  beez

I think men’s bloodlines are more important.

“Koreans incorporate the fact of biological continuity into their family life according to ancient ideas of birth and conception. Mothers traditionally were thought to produce the flesh of their children, and fathers to provide the bones. As bone endures longer than flesh, kinship through males was thought more binding than through females.Even today men pass on membership in their clan to their children, while women do not. Thus, although maternal second cousins may marry, no one with any degree of kinship through males, no matter how remote, can.”

beez
2 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

@Maria F – I’m familiar with the “true bone” stuff so I’m not saying you’re wrong that the importance is the male line. That’s what is recorded on the family registrar. I’m just saying women’s bloodline counts too as far as is someone actually a blood relative so whether you would take them in or not. (I’ve forgotten why we’re talking about bloodlines in relation to Healer? Wasn’t it about who would take him in? Or was it something else?)

MariaF
MariaF
2 months ago
Reply to  beez

The new husband didn’t want a boy from another bloodline in his family.

beez
2 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

Oh right. I never contested that. I just said that it wasn’t explicitly stated by anyone but, yes, in all likelihood that’s what it was. But I wouldn’t put it past Betrayor Mom not to have advocated to try to bring Jung hoo with her. That… 😡

MariaF
MariaF
2 months ago
Reply to  beez

I remember the new husband saying to Healer that it was his fault that Healer’s mother didn’t let him to stay with her. And the boy Healer accepted this explanation! I guess it proves that it’s not unusual to leave children from previous marriages with grandmothers, in orphanages, etc.

beez
2 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

@MariaF – I remember hubby saying it’s his fault that she remarried. Oh how I wish my Korean was at a level to really understand without relying on subtitles.

But let’s not forget that she left him before she married. Although now that we’re talking about this – do not tell me that skank left so she could get married! I’m going to have an apoplectic fit (and I’m not even sure what that is but I’m having one!)

MariaF
MariaF
2 months ago
Reply to  beez

I believe that’s exactly what happened.

Come to think of it, it was probably not that crazy for the Evil Brother to expect YS’s mom to move on and to forget about her dead family.

the_sweetroad
2 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

I also believe that’s exactly what happened – that Jung Hoo’s mom left him so she could marry the new guy.

MariaF, good point – Moon Shik was probably wondering why Myung Hee hadn’t moved on already. Why live with emotions and sentimentality when she should just look ahead to the future and be happy that she has all this luxury stuff? I like how Moon Ho confronted him and said, “And this is how you take care of people and keep them safe? By breaking their legs and holding them prisoner at home?” (paraphrase) I had forgotten that he accurately observed what was going on there. But he didn’t feel like he could help alleviate that situation, except by visiting Myung Hee frequently.

Ironically, in the end it’s Moon Shik’s own feeling of hauntedness and remembrance that makes him go crazy.

Last edited 2 months ago by the_sweetroad
the_sweetroad
2 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

I guess Moon Ho investigating things was his way of trying to help Myung Hee, too.

beez
2 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

OMGoodness! You guys. We finally have a reason. Betrayor Mom isn’t just stupid. That I could accept. She’s a skank who would leave her kid to be with a man.

Her actions make sense now.

beez
2 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

I’m an emotionally drained wreck!

Alexandra
Alexandra
2 months ago
Reply to  beez

Mum didn’t tell Jung Hoo that his father was a murderer and that he killed himself, she told him that he had died in an accident. I think she tried to protect him and not make him a murderer’ sun.
She was threatened by Moon Shik so she might have felt it was better to distance herself from Jung Hoo in order to keep him safe.
She was a housewife and probably had a very difficult time getting by after her husband died so she needed someone to support her. It appears that Korean men don’t want to raise other men’s children. We might have different values but in Korea her choice would have been understood and respected.
I read on an earlier open thread the confession of a woman who had been abandoned by an unwilling mother and she said that although she was hurt, when she grew up she understood her mother’s reasons and she had a good relation with her. So theoretically, adult Healer might have also understood mum and this is way he had a decent relation with her.