Open Thread: Healer Episodes 11 & 12

Welcome to the Open Thread, everyone! I had to have this handhold headline our post today, because Eeeeeee!!!! 😱😱🤩🤩😍😍🥰🥰❤️❤️

SOME IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENTS, before we begin:

ZERO SPOILER POLICY

1. We will be adopting a ZERO SPOILER POLICY for this Open Thread, except for events that have happened in the show, up to this point.

We don’t want to spoil anyone’s watch experience with spoilers. The spoiler tags don’t work in email notifications, therefore, please take note that WE WILL NOT BE USING SPOILER TAGS FOR THIS OPEN THREAD. ANY AND ALL SPOILERS WILL BE REDACTED to protect first-time viewers in our midst (although, I’d appreciate it if you would save me the trouble of having to redact spoilers, heh 😅).

This includes, but is not limited to, how characters &/or relationships develop, later in the show.

We need to protect the innocent! 😉

SPOILER ZONE

2. HOWEVER!! If you’d like to discuss spoilers from a rewatcher’s point of view, I’ve created a SPOILER ZONE for you, where you can discuss all the spoilers you’d like, without the need for spoiler warnings. You can find it here!

Without further ado, here are my reactions to this set of episodes; have fun in the Open Thread, everyone! ❤️

My thoughts

Episode 11

Ahhh. What an episode this turned out to be.

THIS is why you should space out your rewatches as much as possible, because then the details fade in your mind, and you get to experience it all for the first time again (sort of), and with the surprises and the feels hitting you with equal potency. Slurp. 😋

For a start, I am really quite surprised at the development at the top of the episode, where Jung Hoo agrees to show his face to Moon Ho, in exchange for information on that group photo.

I mean, it makes narrative sense, because I can believe that Jung Hoo is that invested in finding out the truth about the murder that his father allegedly committed.

While some might argue that Jung Hoo would have calculated that Moon Ho would extend some measure of trust towards him, based on the fact that he’s his father’s son, I actually think that Jung Hoo doesn’t actually count on anything, from Moon Ho.

As Jung Hoo expresses a little later in the episode, he doesn’t trust Moon Ho. Therefore, I think Jung Hoo reveals his identity, based purely on the exchange that Moon Ho proposes.

That, and that fact that Moon Ho’s kinda-sorta already on to him, given that he’d found the broken pieces of Young Shin’s ancient mobile, in Bong Soo’s coat pocket.

This episode, we keep seeing Moon Ho trying to be friendly and chummy with Jung Hoo, by bringing up past memories, and we see that in response, Jung Hoo keeps pushing Moon Ho away.

I can understand Moon Ho’s desire to reconnect, since, from the flashback, it does appear that young Moon Ho had been fond of both Ji An and Jung Hoo.

At the same time, I can understand why Jung Hoo would reject all of this, upfront.

I feel like this scorn that Jung Hoo expresses, comes partly from a sardonic “I don’t need this human connection bull” sort of place, and partly from a place of insecurity, where he doesn’t want to let on that he’s had such a lonely life, that there hadn’t been anyone to tell him the stories of his childhood.

Jung Hoo’s wounded and defensive on the emotional front, is what I’m trying to say, and I think that’s why he’s reacting this way to all of Moon Ho’s efforts to connect.

I have to admit, I am not pleased with the fact that Moon Ho lies to Jung Hoo about Ji An, right after they’ve made an agreement where he promises to tell Healer what he wants to know, in exchange for seeing Healer’s face.

However, I rationalize that the main thing that Jung Hoo wants to know, isn’t actually about Ji An, so Moon Ho kind of gets a sideways pass on that, since he does actually tell Jung Hoo about his father, as promised.

Also, what is this nugget of information, that Moon Sik had been the witness to that alleged murder that Jung Hoo’s father had committed? So.. if Jung Hoo’s father had been innocent, this means that Moon Sik had lied, as a so-called witness..?

I mean, I wouldn’t put it past Moon Sik, but it’s just really awful, because if this is true, then he’d framed his own friend, for murder. 😬

I’m mollified that Moon Ho does tell Jung Hoo about having tipped off the police as to Healer’s whereabouts. And, I appreciate that Moon Ho explains his actions, saying that he’s been betrayed multiple times, and therefore doesn’t trust people easily.

Ok, fine. I’ll buy it. Although, I have to admit that I’m with Jung Hoo in not trusting Moon Ho, just yet.

I did find it a little odd that Bong Soo acts so indifferently towards Young Shin at the office, but I rationalize that Moon Ho’s keeping Bong Soo away from Young Shin, because of that tip off that he’d given Detective Yoon.

Plus, there’s also the thing where Jung Hoo’s apparently decided that he won’t take things with Young Shin any further, until he’s sorted out this thing about his father. We don’t hear him talk about this with Ahjumma, though Ahjumma does make reference to it, this episode.

What we do get, though, is that conversation between Ahjumma and Jung Hoo, where he sits on the roof, and muses about how he’d like to tell Young Shin the truth about himself; that he’s a thief, and that he wants her to go away with him, to a faraway island.

His reason for wanting to clear his father’s name is so simple, really; that it’d just be too much, to tell Young Shin that he’s a thief, AND that his father was a murderer.

Heh. Healer’s way of thinking about things can be so straightforward and simple sometimes, that it kinda vibes childlike. It’s endearing.

That contented look on his face, as he talks about how he feels safe with Young Shin, is also very endearing. It’s quite lovely, really, to see that he’s so at peace with the idea of sharing his true self with Young Shin.

It’s also cute, that he knows Young Shin well enough, to be able to predict exactly how she’d react, when he does tell her the truth. I love the details that he describes; that she’ll hit him for a while, and then sing a strange song, and dance a ridiculous dance, and then she won’t be mad anymore.

Aw. That pretty much sums it up, honestly. I feel like Jung Hoo’s quite spot-on, in his analysis of Young Shin.

I’m somewhat nervous at how Detective Yoon’s snooping around Young Shin, and asking questions about Healer, and casually accusing Healer of murder as if it’s a confirmed fact, and not police conjecture.

However, I appreciate that Young Shin’s first instinct is to protect Healer, regardless of the fact that Detective Yoon finds those recording devices planted in Dad’s office, and regardless of the casual “murder facts” that Detective Yoon drops.

In fact, this doesn’t deter Young Shin at all, from the date on which she’s invited Healer via email, and OMIGOSH, this truly is THE highlight of the episode, for me.

I just love how both Jung Hoo and Young Shin aren’t at all dissuaded from that date, even though Ahjumma does her best to talk Jung Hoo out of it, and even though Detective Yoon unknowingly does his part too, by saying that Healer’s a murderer.

It’s so sweetly poignant, how Young Shin puts thought and care into dressing up, even though she has no idea whether Healer will actually show up, or whether he’s even going to see her.

Also sweetly poignant, is the way she takes herself on that date, walking in a park, and eating at a snack cart, and then going to the movie theater, as though Healer’s there with her.

She honestly has no idea, whether he’s in the vicinity, or whether he can see her. She’s going on this date in good faith alone, pretty much, and that good faith, in all of its vulnerability, is what makes this feel so touching, to my eyes.

And, up until the point where the movie theater employee invites her to leave because it’s closing time, it does feel like maybe Young Shin’s faith has been misplaced. That is, until the revolving doors won’t stop revolving, in a silent invitation for Young Shin to come right back inside.

I love that Young Shin’s so tuned in to Healer’s way of doing things, that she immediately understands that this is Healer’s invitation to her.

And honestly, it does feel like Healer dates in style, what with the entire movie theater “booked” for their date alone, and with candles lining Young Shin’s path, and an endless slew of movies for her to choose from.

It’s all cool and fun, until the entire atmosphere changes, when Healer enters the movie theater. The way his footsteps echo in Young Shin’s ears, and causes the air to feel charged with electricity and promise, as he steps into the theater, is so thrilling. 🤩

I do love the detail, that Jung Hoo’s bored with the movie at first, but, as he takes his cue from Young Shin, he starts to enjoy the movie too.

How very poignant, though, that a shadow of melancholy comes over them both, as the movie draws to a close. This might be their only date ever, and it’s already coming to an end, and they still haven’t actually exchanged words, really.

Which is why I love – freaking LOVE! – the way Jung Hoo stealth reaches for Young Shin’s hand, just before she walks out the door.

Eeeeaaahhh!!!! That handhold!!! 😍😍😍

In the few long seconds that it lasts, that handhold communicates so much sincerity, longing, heartache and wistfulness, between them.

Gurgle. I’m flailing all over the floor; this is just so much, in the midst of so little.

I so appreciate the detail, that even though Young Shin must be dying to see Healer’s face, she doesn’t attempt to do so, even when she has Healer by the hand. She chooses to respect his anonymity, and she walks away, so as not to be burden.

It never really hit me in previous watches like it’s hitting me now; in walking away so simply, Young Shin is also demonstrating her love, trust and loyalty to Healer.

How troubling, though, that Moon Sik now decides that Healer is someone whom he’d like to own. Because, if I read him right, he’s going to do all he can to own Healer, but he’s not opposed to Secretary Oh getting rid of Healer, if these efforts fail. Gah.

Plus, we now get that tidbit of information from Jung Hoo’s mother, when she tells Myung Hee that it had been Moon Sik who’d threatened her back in the day, to stop investigating Dad’s case, if she wanted Jung Hoo to be safe.

AND, there’s that thing where Jung Hoo finds that his father’s case files are filled with dud sheets of blank paper.

And then, when he makes an official request to see the case files, as Dad’s family member, it’s Moon Sik who gets the call, that someone’s digging into the case.

Do all bad roads lead to Moon Sik, then?

The fact that Jung Hoo’s locked in what looks like an interrogation room, while Moon Sik approaches Young Shin oh-so-pleasantly, definitely makes me nervous.

This means that if Moon Sik were to do something to Young Shin, Healer won’t be able to come to her rescue – at least, not at long as he’s locked in that room?

Eep. This is getting nerve-wracking, when all I wanna do, is soak in that movie date and that tender handhold. 😅🤪😍

Episode 12

Guh. What a dramatic episode this turned out to be. This episode, for the first time, I am legitimately worried for Jung Hoo’s safety, and it’s all very unsettling.

For a start, I’m relieved that nothing bad happens to Young Shin, even though she meets with Moon Sik.

Although, I can’t exactly credit Moon Ho with anything, really, since all he does is get all upset in Moon Sik’s face, but is otherwise fairly ineffectual in stopping Moon Sik from doing what he wants to do, from what I can tell.

We do get a very interesting flashback, though, from Moon Sik’s point of view. It seems that Moon Sik hadn’t abandoned Ji An on purpose, but that Ji An had wandered off from the car, when Moon Sik had left her for a while, to get her a beverage?

Hrm.. If that’s true, then I’d wager that it was Secretary Oh (or his equivalent, working under the Elder’s orders) who had gotten rid of Ji An.

I have to wonder, though, that if Moon Sik hadn’t actively abandoned Ji An, then why hadn’t he managed to find her, after she’d gotten lost? Had he been instructed by Elder, to leave it alone, or else?

Also, what does Moon Sik mean now, when he tells Moon Ho that Young Shin is in danger, and therefore he’ll have to take her, in order to keep her safe?

Ack. I wouldn’t want anyone going anywhere under Moon Sik’s protection. As Moon Ho’s says, Moon Sik’s protective ways can be quite scary.

Although Jung Hoo outing himself as his father’s son, and going around with Moon Sik like that makes me nervous, I really did like the fact that he got to meet Myung Hee as his father’s son.

Kudos to Do Ji Won; the scenes of Myung Hee and Jung Hoo are just masterful.

All of Myung Hee’s pent-up emotion, rising to the surface, not in an effortless rush, but in a choked back, strangled sort of manner, makes me think that Myung Hee’s been holding back her emotions in a very big way, all these years.

Her tenderness with Jung Hoo is so many things. There are shades of wonder, regret, sorrow, joy and tenderness, all layered into one, and it’s really quite affecting to behold.

And then there’s the way Myung Hee insists on pushing through to talk with Jung Hoo about his father, even though she knows – and Moon Sik knows – that this is going to bring on a seizure.

That growing stranglehold in her voice and her features, as she ekes out the words to Jung Hoo, is so masterfully done.

Also, what a precious gift this is, to Jung Hoo. Finally, there’s someone who acknowledges his courage for wanting to know about his father, and who believes in his father’s innocence, unequivocally.

I feel that the fact that Jung Hoo responds to Myung Hee in the moment, essentially with the truth, by telling her that the reason he wants to know about his father, is because there’s a girl he likes, says a lot about how Jung Hoo feels towards Myung Hee.

Her reception of him has been so raw and honest, that it seems that it inspires an honest response from him too.

How very significant, that it’s during this conversation, that Jung Hoo makes the connection that Myung Hee’s daughter’s name had been Ji An, and that Moon Ho had addressed Young Shin by that very name, up on the roof, when he’d believed Young Shin to be in danger.

Ahhh! He knows!!

AND, thanks to Ahjumma’s sharp sleuthing, Jung Hoo now also knows that it had been Secretary Oh, who had attempted to kill Young Shin that day, by cutting the elevator cords.

It makes sense to me that the first thing Jung Hoo does, is confront Moon Ho for lying to him, that Ji An is dead.

When Moon Ho says that he will explain, I have to agree with Jung Hoo, that Moon Ho’s explanations, where he lies and distorts the truth as he sees fit, don’t inspire a great deal of confidence.

Personally, I don’t really trust Moon Ho all that much right now, either. I don’t know for sure, that he wouldn’t throw Jung Hoo under the bus, in order to save Young Shin, despite the fact that he now knows that Jung Hoo is Joon Seok’s son.

However, I do take the point that when Moon Sik confronts Moon Ho about Jung Hoo and the things that Jung Hoo knows, Moon Ho basically threatens Moon Sik, saying that he’s learned everything from Moon Sik, and is essentially just like him.

I take that to mean that if Moon Ho’s going to go after Jung Hoo, that Moon Ho would step in to protect him?

I know it’s a little frivolous, in the light of everything else that’s happening in our drama world, but I have to confess, I felt a nice good amount of squee, at the fact that Jung Hoo then heads straight to Young Shin, for a hug.

Eee!!!

And, again, he’s so instinctual about it all. When she pushes him away, it’s almost like he’s drunk, the way he rebounds and attempts to hug her a second time, saying, “Again.”

It feels like he’s never been hugged before, and this is his first taste of it, and since it’s Young Shin, whom he has feelings for, it’s all the more affecting and intoxicating, and he simply can’t get enough. 😋

It’s cute how Jung Hoo asks to stay the night, and then gets jealous of himself, when he asks Young Shin how she could hug another guy and let him stay over so easily, when she says that she already has someone whom she likes.

Hee hee. Jung Hoo really is in a love triangle with himself, and he’s not quite sure how to handle it. 😁

It’s really nice to see Jung Hoo having a nice cozy time with Young Shin, cooking and eating dinner together. He’s always such a loner, that these little things feel like so much, in his context.

The most thrilling part of this sleepover, however, is that moment when Young Shin and Jung Hoo both reach for the pajamas that Young Shin dropped, and their hands meet – much like how their hands had met, after their movie date.

Eeee!!! 😱🤩 WILL SHE KNOW HIM BY THE FEEL OF HIS HAND?!???

I mean, Young Shin does pause, and grab Jung Hoo’s hand a second time, because she picks up on the familiarity of his hand.

She shakes it off this time, but.. I can’t help hoping that she’ll put it together at some point, because – dang – how romantic is that idea, that she’d know him by his hand?? 🤩😍😍

I also really, really like that conversation between Jung Hoo and Ahjumma.

Ahjumma lays everything out for him, telling him how reckless he’s being with his identity, and how Young Shin’s basically his kryptonite.

And Jung Hoo answers by saying that he knows that Ahjumma likes him a lot, and that’s why she’s tried to keep him and Young Shin apart, because she knows about their fathers, and is afraid that he’ll get hurt.

There’s just something very personal about the tone of this conversation, which I feel we haven’t quite gotten before. It feels like such a rare and precious moment, where Jung Hoo shares his heart, and Ahjumma just listens. ❤️

These two are honestly my secondary OTP in this show. I luff them together, so much.

Ahjumma’s right, too, about Young Shin being Jung Hoo’s kryptonite. He ends the conversation, saying,

“I like Chae Young Shin.” … “So I’m preparing myself. Even if I get hurt, there’s nothing I can do. It’s okay even if she doesn’t know. I should be there for her. Don’t tell me to run away. I don’t know… how to run away.”

Augh. This feels like Jung Hoo preparing to sacrifice himself, if necessary, in order to protect Young Shin.

There’s something rather discombobulating about the idea that our mercenary night courier, who would do anything for money (well, except kill people), would put himself in danger willingly, if it means that he can save the ones whom he loves.

And that’s exactly where our last narrative arc takes us, this episode.

Now, with Moon Sik cluing in on Healer’s identity, his weaknesses become apparent, and that’s how Moon Sik successfully lures Healer into that trap, this episode.

It’s not that Jung Hoo doesn’t know it’s a trap. It’s that, even knowing that it’s a trap, he feels he has to go, because it’s his mother’s safety that’s at stake. There’s just no way that he could chance it, in good conscience.

I find it very touching that Jung Hoo cares about Mom so much, especially given how he basically had to grow up without her, for so many years. I think that made everything even harder to watch, somehow.

Knowing that Jung Hoo’s putting himself in harm’s way for his mother’s sake, even though his relationship with her is but a sliver of what could have been, if she hadn’t left him.

(Although, now it appears that a big reason that she left him, was to keep him safe from Moon Sik.)

This entire last arc was nerve-wracking to watch, with Jung Hoo basically thisclose to busting his cover, both in front of Young Shin, and in front of the Double S dudes.

Show isn’t clear about what’s causing the power / network failures for both Ahjumma and Detective Yoon, but I get the idea that this is unlikely to be a coincidence.

But.. if it’s not a mere coincidence, then does it mean that Moon Sik’s somehow on to Ahjumma too, even though her identity and location have been kept top secret all this time..? Gah. I hope that Ahjumma’s not in danger..? 😱

It’s so alarming to see Jung Hoo get shot with what looks to be tranquilizer, and then hurt by the Double S dude on top of it all.

It’s extra frustrating, because I know that if they hadn’t used a tranquilizer on Jung Hoo, all of the Double S dudes would’ve been no match for our Healer. But I suppose I can’t expect the Double S goons to play fair, now, can I?

I’m pretty sure it’s Sabu who’s come to Jung Hoo’s rescue, since Ahjumma had mentioned getting in touch with Sabu for help.

But, I’m still nervous about what’s going to happen.

What’s going to happen to Sabu, if that’s indeed him, subbing in for Jung Hoo? And what’s going to happen to Ahjumma; is she in danger after all?

And most of all, what’s going to happen to poor Jung Hoo, who’s passed out on the roof?

Can’t lie though; I’m kinda stoked that Ahjumma reaches out to Young Shin and asks her to look for Jung Hoo.

Will this be the moment when Young Shin finds out that Bong Sookie and Healer are one and the same..? 😱🤩

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phl1rxd
phl1rxd
5 months ago

Fangurl – excellent review as always!

Last edited 5 months ago by phl1rxd
eda harris
eda harris
6 months ago

i want to go back for a second to our discussion of what caused healer to stumble, almost falling down on the roof after the kiss, whether it was the excitement from the kiss or the danger of the incident with the elevator. we went about it on and on, but now i think it can be put to rest that it was his first KISS that made his knees weak and buckle. because after he read young shin’s email with the request for a date, seems like he got a similar reaction, stumbling, losing control of the surrounding area, probably his vital signs went up again. in regards to danger, yes, it was extreme, but healer is used to danger of all kinds, that would hardly cause him to almost fall down, as it never happened before (as ahjuma pointed out). it was a first for him and a first kiss, and first time having such strong feelings towards a woman.

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

I agree. The kiss made Healer’s knees weak. Hormones!

I think situation before the date was a little different. Like you said, he was so focused on YS, he lost control of his surroundings.
He forgot there was a sofa and he stumbled.

Another time he was so lost in thoughts, he didn’t notice that street lights had changed. He didn’t move the car until someone behind him honked the car horn.

Its adorable.

phl1rxd
phl1rxd
5 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

Eda – I also agree. He was in sugar shock.

j3ffc
j3ffc
6 months ago

Thanks for the great review, kfangurl!

the_sweetroad
6 months ago

Thanks for the excellent review as always KFG! These two episodes are so great. Some things I noticed this time around:

– It really strikes me this time around that Healer seems like a smooth operator on that dream date. I mean, swoon! But we can assume he’s never been on a date before….so all the credit has to go to Cyber Ahjumma. Ahjumma knew what she was doing. And I just love that Healer again found Chae Young Shin so irresistible he had to just go and hold her hand.

– Also, when Healer finds out that Ji An and Young Shin are the same person…wow, JCW does such a good job acting out that realization.

– In Episode 12 when Jung hoo goes to find Young Shin at the cafe and hugs her, it’s so heartbreaking. He’s so alone and he just needs to be comforted by someone. Good thing Young Shin is in his life now, and he can draw comfort from her. Can you imagine if he’d had no one to go to when all these heavy truths were coming at him?!

– He’s so funny when he acts like a weakling around her!

– Poor Healer, when he confronts Moon Ho and says of all the adults: “What did you guys do to us?!” He can’t yet separate out that Moon Ho is different from the other adults….but the pain and trauma are so real. He’s now seen Sabu, met Myung Hee as himself, seen Moon Shik again, and heard some of the truth from Moon Ho. No wonder he’s just angry at everyone (except Myung Hee).

– Moon Shik was the only role model Moon Ho had. Even these two brothers, like Healer, had to grow up alone.

– Omo, when Bong Soo is trying to peel an onion or a potato! LOL. Healer really never cooks for himself does he? Haha.

– And don’t you guys just love how seamlessly Healer moves from dorky and awkward to clever, in-control guy? This hit home, again, when he said goodnight to Young Shin in the cafe, then went downstairs to talk to ahjumma.

eda harris
eda harris
6 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

sweetroad, i assume you are talking about the hand holding in the movie theater. Healer again found Chae Young Shin so irresistible he had to just go and hold her hand.
yes, i found it very touching, almost on the level of the hat kiss – it was so charged with electricity. and it became so strongly ingrained in her mind that later on when they accidentally touch hands again, this memory comes back to her, although at that time she still does not know how to connect it, but it is the beginning of her suspicion.
 In Episode 12 when Jung hoo goes to find Young Shin at the cafe and hugs her, it’s so heartbreaking. He’s so alone and he just needs to be comforted by someone. 
i interpreted it that he is aware of the horror of the situation, and what is going to hit young shin with discovering the whole truth about her mother – and that is why he hugs her tight and holds on to her, it is his fear of what is coming, especially for her. he is probably also pretty nervous about what he himself can expect in the unraveling situation.

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

@eda – Yup. And he’s also spending the night because he realizes he has to protect her as he told Moonho that he would.

the_sweetroad
6 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

Hi @eda, yes! I was talking about the last-second hand holding in the movie theater.

And what you say about Ep 12 makes sense…I hadn’t thought of it that way but I can see what you’re saying, that Jung Hoo, having discovered the truth about Myung Hee being Young Shin’s mom, is comforting Young Shin as well.

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

he is aware of the horror of the situation, and what is going to hit young shin

I thought so too.

Also, YS is part of his past. She is the girl he played with, when they were little.

Healer has a picture of his father and his friends, which represents his family’s past. She can be considered a missing link to that picture.

Now that the fate brought them back together, it makes sense to me that he wanted to hug SY, after being disconnected from his past and his family for so long.

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

@eda @Maria F – I believe all of what you are saying about that hug… and more. I think the first hug was exactly what you’ve described, but the second hug, as he nuzzled into her neck was “all guy” and is what popped Young shin back into reality, hence the knee warning. 😆

I love that as she serves him that fancy coffee and he starts asking her about liking one dude but still letting another hug her and spend the night, she starts saying “what other guy? What am I supposed to do when you show up whining (and watch her face as she makes whiny faces) that you’re scared of bugs but then suddenly start acting as a man?” 😆

I love that scene.

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

is what popped Young shin back into reality

I thought it was more about her reaction to that hug than his. At some point YS closed her eyes. And then she realized that she was “responding” to that hug more than she intended to. It was turning into something else. For her. And she didn’t want any of that.

eda harris
eda harris
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

i think her reaction is a combination of both of these interpretations – she’s confused but also scared of herself and where it can or would go with this guy, who starts feeling to her way more than just her subordinate “healer upside down”.

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

@MariaF – Yes! Yes!

the_sweetroad
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

Yes, @beez, that whole conversation is gold.

THEY ARE SOO CUTE TOGETHER!!

the_sweetroad
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

Ooh, another great point!

To me this was just a hug. You guys are bringing so much more meaning out of it that makes a lot of sense. Love it.

eda harris
eda harris
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

maria, Now that the fate brought them back together, it makes sense to me that he wanted to hug SY, after being disconnected from his past and his family for so long.
yes, a very good point, i did not even think this way, but this is a very valid and important conclusion.

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

Omo, when Bong Soo is trying to peel an onion or a potato! LOL. Healer really never cooks for himself does he? Haha.

He doesn’t cook now, but, when he lived with the teacher, they cooked. So, why doesn’t he know how to peel an onion? Strange.

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

@MariaF – I moved my comment to the spoiler thread because?I just realized we haven’t seen that yet.

Last edited 6 months ago by beez
MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

I thought it was adorable that, despite the fact that YS wasn’t going to see him, Healer dressed up for that date. He held that outfit in front of a mirror, making sure he looked good in it.

the_sweetroad
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

You’re right @MariaF. He took that date seriously, too. Then he walked into the theater all smooth and in-control. But he was nervous and excited just like she was.

eda harris
eda harris
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

o, ya, i didn’t even think about! but so true and funny.

beez
6 months ago

Healer got gut punched by both his “parents” (Teacher and Ahjumna) these last few episodes.

First, in Ep 10, Teacher tells him that every time he looks at him it causes a heavy stone in his gut. What a horrible reason Jung hoo gets from Teacher for his abandonment. 

Then, my poor Healer. So excited to get Young shin’s text asking for a date that he’s tripping over the furniture (Off topic: I was surprised he didn’t have a closet of all black identical outfits 😆) – Ahjumma basically tells him that he’s not good enough for Young shin. She may be doing it to protect Jun hoo from his “kryptonite” (and the fact that she doesn’t want him hurt by a relationship with Young shin since she knows their fathers’ backstory means they can’t be together) but it seems so cruel to me. And the fact that Jung hoo doesn’t question that Ahjumma is wrong but accepts her words as if it’s just a fact (and I guess it kind of is). 😥

I agreed with Ahjumma that the “date is idiotic” although you’d never know that when reading KFangurl’s description of the date. It made me flail a little reading it, more than actually watching the date did. (I did melt at the hand holding but I was first, annoyed by Young shin’s having her date alone as she walked and observed others’ dates. And then then her ability to not turn around in the theatre. (I wouldn’t have been able to resist looking.) But I found it really creepy that she doesn’t even know this strange man’s face who walks in the theatre behind her. He’s just a vague romantic shadow in her mind. It’s scary. Even her blind faith in Healer is scary as she disregards Cyber Detective’s info that he’s a murderer. I mean, what does she really know about Healer really?

Then, even if Jung hoo can forgive Mom, it hit me that Jung hoo doesn’t even have a halfway decent explanation for why mom left him. He had no idea she’d been threatened with his safety because if he did, he would already know the facts that his dad did not commit suicide or murder. He had no clue who anyone was in the picture other than those are his dad’s friends. Moonshik and cronies were nowhere on his radar. No reason to suspect Mom had an external pressure to leave him. And he still lays it all on the line to go rescue Mom (or as I like to call her The Ultimate Betrayor).

KFG’s description of Myung hee & Jung hoo 🤧

As y’all know, I’ve been less than pleased with Moon ho this time ’round on this rewatch so I have to admit feeling a bit of glee when Healer hit Moon ho like a linebacker. 😁

Last edited 6 months ago by beez
the_sweetroad
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

@beez, you know the show way better than I do, but Young Shin had grabbed Healer’s photo from the SS guy so she knew he was young-ish and cool-looking. And she had felt his protection from the SS goons during the street fight, experienced being rescued by him in that elevator, and been kissed by him. She probably felt like she had enough to go on. 😆
It seemed like after the rooftop kiss she really needed to be with him again. Understandably. I mean, he kind of left her hanging. She probably knew instinctively that he didn’t kiss every person he rescued.
Can you imagine, though, if she had never stolen that photo? What if she truly was blindly in love with him? I mean, it could have been that Sabu was still Healer, and she was in love with him. Gah! Good thing our Healer is young and attractive.

Last edited 6 months ago by the_sweetroad
beez
6 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

@the_sweetroad – But could she pick him out of a line up?
If she knew what he looked like, he couldn’t be next to her as Bong sook.
Yeah, I’m grateful she’s not crushing on Teacher. 😆 Not that that stopped The Ol’ Fart from talking about sending Jung hoo away and stepping into his place with Young shin 🤢 Teacher really has a high image of himself, doesn’t he? 😆

the_sweetroad
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

@beez, True! He couldn’t be with her as Bong Soo if she really knew what Healer looked like. Teacher is a strange dude – he’s the one who gives me the heebie jeebies, the way he talks about women. 🙂

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

Young Shin asked Bong Soo once, if she had seen him somewhere. He denied, of course.

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

@MariaF – Ohhhh yeah. But I’m sure she was feeling that from what she could see during the bathroom encounter. Cause that photo she lifted it from SS wouldn’t have done it. She was staring at that photo from all angles, pressing her face against the wall, trying to make out his face! lol

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

I also think it was the bathroom encounter. She even saw him in a mirror for a moment.

eda harris
eda harris
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

@beez and maria, exactly, that moment in the bathroom mirror she did not even have time to really SEE his face, yet our brain is much faster and it sure made an imprint in her mind (that split of a second), on the subconscious level, but still there.

Alexandra
Alexandra
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

Well, he did save her twice, which can bring the benefit of doubt.

Last edited 6 months ago by Alexandra
beez
6 months ago
Reply to  Alexandra

@Alexandra – That’s true. But how many guys, where even when you know their face, address, and SS# may protect you from rowdies in a bar or something but then turn out to be jealous, obsessive, dangerous jerks?

It’s true we know Healer and its very romantic from our point of view, but putting myself in Young shin’s shoes and it gives me the heebie jeebies. Luckily she doesn’t feel that way. 😁 But I guarantee if Amazing Dad or Uncle Ahjusshi knew what she was doing, she’d be locked in her room! 😆

Alexandra
Alexandra
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

True, but that rescue from the crashing elevator was at another level not just protecting from rowdies in a bar or something. I see your point though and I would feel the same way was she my daughter, but in the world of the show I can also understand Young Shin’s trustfulness.

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  Alexandra

@Alexandra – yeah, that elevator rescue is sigh worthy and then some

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

I can’t help feeling sorry for Moon hu. Firstly, it seems he grew up without parents, which is a huge deal. Also, what happened to his brother’s friends and their children affected him greatly. And his only close relative (his brother) has become his enemy. Not that Moon hu is perfect, but, under the circumstances, I sympathize.

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

@MariaF – I hadn’t thought about Moon ho in that light. He can probably identify (a little bit) with the lost boy in Junghoo. But by Moon ho having his brother (who I think we can all agree truly loves him) and his sister-in-law, Moon ho was not isolated as Jung hoo was. And Moon ho probably went to all the best schools, probably made friends, had friends over and birthday parties, etc. I’m not saying it was rosy for Moon ho, but just that it was far better than what Jung hoo had.

We can all see Teacher is a bit of a kook. And it’s obvious from his disappearance without a word that Teacher would not have concerned himself with a young kid’s emotional needs. He probably never gave it a thought. To older men like him – food and shelter and teaching you a way to survive is all that’s needed. (My dad was like that.)

Last edited 6 months ago by beez
MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

You are right. Of course, Moon ho’s situation in life was better then Healer’s. But experiencing this kind of psychological trauma at young age must affect people, even if they seem to have a pretty good life later on.

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

@MariaF – I so agree. I’m just so caught by the extreme trauma of Young shin and Jung hoo. When he said “What have you all done to us!” *sob* I’m right there with him.

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

You guys, what I love about forums like this is others shedding new light on things and looking at it from different angles whether I agree or disagree.

I’m truly hoping that as we go along with these episodes, somebody sheds new light on Healer’s biological mom. I really don’t want to hate her because I see he loves her so much. How can somebody betrayed by almost everyone still have so much love in their heart? I think maybe that’s what makes him so special to all of us despite knowing he’s a thief with only one moral compunction (as far as we know).

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

I think Healer took after his father. And the four of them (YS’ parents, Healer’s father and the teacher) were heroic and loyal. They were leaders. Healer’s mother, on the other hand, is a regular housewife, a follower, not special in any way, who conforms to societal customs.

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

@MariaF – True, true. And while I talk constantly about Korean cultural norms, I have higher expectations for moms in general. While some may conform to the “can’t bring my children from another marriage” mess, I’d like to think most moms choose not to abandon their children. I wonder if there are any statistics on that. I’ll have to get to Googling.

the_sweetroad
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

I can’t remember, but I do wonder if abandoning Healer haunted his mom in the way it’s haunting us. I haven’t been focusing on her much during the past few episodes, but I’m going to look at her with a new awareness as we keep going.

Alexandra
Alexandra
6 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

I think you will get your answer in the next episodes.

eda harris
eda harris
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

from what i understand, she was told by moon shik himself or his skunk-secretary that she better abandon her search for what really happened to her husband or it will hurt her son. so what does she do next? she abandons not just her quest for the truth about her husband, but HER SON. how idiotic and cruel is this? and then she remarries and lives happily after, without a concern about her son, even not letting him meet his half-brother or come into her house, even for meals? like this entire situation is beyond weird to me.

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

@everyone – In that scene where Healer met his mom as she was sending her teenage kid off to school or cram school (wherever he was going), didn’t it feel as if Jung hoo and his younger brother are kept apart?

Maybe that’s just mom trying to keep Jung hoo out of everybody’s line of sight. But I wonder if that kid remembers, or understood that it was his older brother that day at the park? If he didn’t understand, does he even know that Jung hoo exists?

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

Sadly, this situation doesn’t seem beyond weird to people in S. Korea.

During an interview for the “Side by side” project, a man told a story how one day his grandmother took him and his sister to a railway station and unexpectedly handed them to a complete stranger. And it was just her there. The children’s mother and the father didn’t even bother to come with them. The grandmother said: “Come visit me, when you grow up”.
I can’t be sure this happened very recently, but it did happen. And, apparently, it isn’t something out of the ordinary.

Also, I don’t know about his childhood years, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Healer himself wanted to stay in the shadows, because of the kind of life he leads.

eda harris
eda harris
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

maria Healer himself wanted to stay in the shadows, 
but what about before he became a “professional” healer 2? why wasn’t he coming for visits? why didn’t he have a chance to meet his brother? did the mother even know that the person raising HER son is one of the best friends of his dad and her husband? did she contribute ANYTHING to his existence, even behind the scenes? this whole issue is a big black hole for me, and disgusts me even more than teacher. even animals do not abandon their young ones. what kind of animal is his mother, it would even be an insult to animals to compare her to an animal.

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

I feel that way too, eda. I understand what MariaF is telling us that it’s common in S.K. when women get remarried to leave a child with grandparents. But as far as I know that’s not cutting off all contact. But this *woman* told him she was never coming back (or either she said “forever” (I’m not sure which). WTHeck???? Never to even visit him?

Didn’t you guys feel that when he found his mom on the playground that was the first time he’d seen her since she left? Maybe I’m just assuming that.

eda harris
eda harris
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

@beez, that was the first time he’d seen her since she left?
no, i think they did have communications before – he’s asking her about her husband’s habits, he knows her taste… but when did this happen, how? it is not explained in the drama, and he is VERY protective of her. why? where did this come from? seems like the drama is mia in this department. could have been developed more.

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

@eda – you misunderstood (or I wasn’t clear) – You’re talking about their meeting in the restaurant but I’m talking about his finding her and her new son on the playground.

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

Eda, I think we already agreed that she is a terrible mother.
But terrible mothers can be found anywhere. I’m actually having a bigger problem with the fact that, apparently, her behavior is (or was) acceptable in Korean society.

eda harris
eda harris
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

i find a lot of things kind of weird, almost inhumane in s.k. and yes, we are all in agreement how terrible his mother is. but i have all these questions of why to such a degree?

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

@ Eda
Plot development. The writers needed Healer to be abandoned and lonely, hence a terrible mother and a crazy teacher.
As we discussed before, there are quite a few things I the show that are either too good or too bad to be logical.

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

@MariaF – And yet I’m in all the way! 🙂
I knew we would find these flaws once we all began dissecting Show. But it still stands as one of, if not THE, best romances that I’ve seen.

I remember when I used to hate how Kdramas (and Kmovies too) mix comedy and tragedy. I used to think “Pick which genre you’re going to be!” I often felt sucker punched when I turned on a rom-com movie only to have everyone get terminal cancer by the end. (I still don’t like that type.) But I’ve grown to really appreciate the humor even in the midst of serious circumstances.

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

@MariaF – And yet I’m in all the way!

Yes, we all have noticed it. 😊

I also think it’s a wonderful romance. The FL and the ML are great together. But I have to admit that your enthusiasm is very much responsible for my continuing participating in this discussion.

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

@MariaF – I’m so glad! I was afraid that some of my more emotional tangents might be offputting (but I couldn’t help it). 😆

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

Not at all. It’s engaging.

And I understand how you feel.
I couldn’t stop myself from commenting and being emotional, when we were discussing “My Mister”.

the_sweetroad
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

Ditto, @MariaF, in regards to My Mister. ❤️
There’s just something about Dong Hoon and Ji An, and the entire show, that elicits a lot of emotions and heart.

Healer is a close-enough 2nd for me. Not super-close, but close-ish. 🙂

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

I didn’t join in the rewatch of My Mister. Just watching once was enough.I recognize that It’s an excellent show but it’s too dark for me. And maybe too realistic. I watch Kdrama, usually for the rom-coms.

the_sweetroad
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

After I watched MM the first time, I felt like I never needed to watch it again. Then I started reading more about the ending and all the subtle things I’d missed, and I had to go back and watch it again. And again (and again and again)! I’m re-watching it now for “research” (again) and even now noticing new things. It’s like the richest literary fiction in one masterpiece of a show.

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

I agree. I feel we stopped discussing it too soon.

the_sweetroad
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

LOL. Well, I’m always up for discussing it! I think I’m still subscribed to the last thread (Episodes 15 and 16) so we can revive it.

And you know the Give Me Slippers fansite is there. This was the latest post we posted…and I think you’ll enjoy it, MariaF. Check it out: https://givemeslippers.wordpress.com/2022/03/08/ji-an-the-mentor/

– Ji An the Mentor –

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

Thank you the_sweetroad! I’ll read the posts.

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

Too bad you didn’t join us. It would’ve been great to hear your opinions.

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

Thanks. But my opinions would’ve caused too much friction, I think.

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

There is no such thing.

Think of a discussion as of a process of cutting and polishing a diamond that is done not by one, but by many people. They together make a show “shine”.

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

@MariaF – I don’t know if the way she did it is acceptable. It depends on if she kept in contact or completely cut ties.

Alexandra
Alexandra
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

I think we can assume from the conversation between them that she did keep in touch. He asked her if her husband is still drinking (which is something personal), it was obvious they ate that red beans dish several times and mum is always happy to see him.

I cannot excuse her behaviour but I do think that she is not that terrible under the circumstances. I will leave here my comment from the spoiler thread:

Mum didn’t tell Jung Hoo that his father was a murderer and that he killed himself, she told him that he had died in an accident. I think she tried to protect him and not make him a murderer’ sun.
She was threatened by Moon Shik so she might have felt it was better to distance herself from Jung Hoo in order to keep him safe.
She was a housewife and probably had a very difficult time getting by after her husband died so she needed someone to support her. It appears that Korean men don’t want to raise other men’s children. We might have different values but in Korea her choice would have been understood and respected.
I read on an earlier open thread the confession of a woman who had been abandoned by an unwilling mother and she said that although she was hurt, when she grew up she understood her mother’s reasons and she had a good relation with her. So theoretically, adult Healer might have also understood mum and this is way he had a decent relation with her.

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  Alexandra

@Alexandra
I think you are right.

Even as a boy, Healer accepted his mother’s new husband’s explanation that it was his fault, and, in a sign of reconciliation, took the jacket that his mother had bought him.
People have different customs/values in Korea.

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

whatever the reasond and whether Jung hoo accepted it doesn’t change the hurt involved.

MariaF
MariaF
5 months ago
Reply to  beez

@beez
True. Unfortunately.

eda harris
eda harris
5 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

maria, sorry, can not agree. i do not think he accepted, he simply was left with no choice. there was no regular polite bowing of the head at the end, he did not look , o, well, i wish you guys a happy life, and would not bother you any more. i think he walked away quit angry, a boy, who just got a pot of ice cold water poured on his head.
he accepted the coat – it was cold. he does not even thank his mom or her husband. he does not even turn around to give her the last glance. he’s done, a little boy is deeply deeply hurt.

eda harris
eda harris
5 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

seems like i am not done with this mother yet. (sweetroad, i am working towards your goal).
maria, you are the queen of details and logic, and you taught me to look into this direction. so , i want to look at this from yet another perspective, that was not mentioned here yet. from what i gather, koreans have the utmost respect and consideration for their dead (anybody, correct me if i am wrong). this mother married her husband for love (seems like it was not an arranged marriage) and had a child with him. since he died and she even has suspicions about the nature of his death, doesn’t she own it to him, to the commitment that she had towards him, to the love they shared to raise his child to the best of her abilities and give him everything he needed and even more. what does she do? she dumps the child into her mother’s lap,(mother does not look thrilled with the task), but daughter is leaving and telling the child – she’ll NEVER come back. what?! who says such a thing to a small vulnerable child who just lost his father?
a few years later grandmother dies. i am sure, daughter must know about the death of her mother. what arrangements did she do for her son. none, seems like, as teacher came to his school and took care even of the grandmothers estate. did she even know what happened to her son, where did he go? seems like she did not, because when he finds her in the park with the son, he does not even know that she had another son. now, when she knows what motherhood really is,(with the second child), does she make any effort to find her first born? again, i am sorry, her crocodile tears do not melt my heart.

MariaF
MariaF
5 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

maria, you are the queen of details and logic
Lol. I must have missed the coronation.

To answer your questions.

It’s an interesting angle about respect for the dead. 
I don’t know enough about Korean customs to answer whether mom owes her dead husband to care for their son.
But she definitely owes it to the boy. 
Actually, it’s not even about owing. It’s about motherly love. Where is it?

I have to say that I can’t stand Healer’s mother. Neither hers nor her second husband’s sorry excuses work for me at all. 

I could totally understand that she couldn’t prove her husband’s innocent. I could even accept her decision to leave her son with the grandmother, temporarily.

By the way, it’s not that the grandmother wasn’t thrilled with the task. I think she wasn’t thrilled with her daughter’s decision to leave her child behind. At least, that’s how I interpreted the old woman’s facial expression.

But, as you mentioned, to tell a young boy that she wasn’t coming back, ever, because it was too hard for her to stay?!! As I said in my earlier comment, she is a terrible mother.

When they met in a restaurant, it seemed that Healer bought her food, not the other way around. She didn’t even bring him any home-made dishes. He also asked her about her son and the husband. And she complained that her second son causes her to age, because he doesn’t study hard enough. Apparently, abandoning Healer didn’t age her a bit!

The only decent thing she has done is to allow the teacher to sell the grandmother’s house and to give the proceeds to Healer, when he grows up. I don’t see how he could’ve done it otherwise, because, as a daughter, she must have inherited the house.

And to respond to your other comment:
I rewatched that scene with the coat. You are right. Healer was still mad when he left. According to the teacher, after his mother abandoned him, Healer’s opinion of women was very low (a piece of gum stuck to his shoes). It took him a long of time to forgive her. And then he met YS.

Healer had to have a bad mother to be lonely and abandoned. On the other hand, she couldn’t be too bad: otherwise, it wouldn’t be plausible for him to forgive her and to rush to her defense at the mall. I believe that’s where all these excuses and tears are coming from. I think the writer of this show didn’t handle this very well.

the_sweetroad
5 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

Totally agree with all of this. It’s like the show wanted the early abandonment to be as horrible as possible, but on the other hand they wanted Healer and mom’s later, adult relationship to be close enough that Healer would knowingly walk into a trap to save his mom. It doesn’t make complete sense.

She didn’t even bring him any home-made dishes. He also asked her about her son and the husband. And she complained that her second son causes her to age, because he doesn’t study hard enough. Apparently, abandoning Healer didn’t age her a bit!

Good points! Grrrrrrrr.

eda harris
eda harris
5 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

maria,  I could even accept her decision to leave her son with the grandmother, temporarily. the “temporarily” is not and option here, she clearly said she never comes back. point. so can you accept it under these conditions? i doubt it. unless you are way more forgiving than i am. she is a terrible mother, i agree with you on that, no matter how i look at that, i can’t stand her. even the teacher does not provoke in me such a sense of disgust, at least i can find some redeeming qualities there.
the house… as a daughter, she must have inherited the house. i am not sure about that, i do not know what are the inheritance laws in korea, may be she did not leave it to her daughter. somehow, i have an impression that she was not in communication with teacher, so how could she agree to transfer the house to him? a sell of a house can not be that simple and so fast, even in korea, can it? may be she left it to her grandson as she was raising him at the time. in general, this issue is not explained too clearly, but i refuse to give credit to the mother for that. may be beez knows something of how it works in korea, after all they seem to have laws (written and unwritten) for everything.
On the other hand, she couldn’t be too bad: otherwise, it wouldn’t be plausible for him to forgive her. i have to disagree with you on that. i think the forgiveness came from healer himself, no relation to mother’s behavior. may be he needed it for his fragile emotional equilibrium, may be after all a son’s connection to his birth mother is not severed with the umbilical cord, and even after such abuse it still stays intact somewhere deep inside. may be the respect to a parent in general in the korean society is so strong that it had an influence on healer’s psyche. i am just speculating, i do not know, but one thing seems clear to me, that it is not due to “she was not that bad”.
i think that the mother’s character is a great exaggeration, and the writer did not think it through. it could have been presented a bit differently, so i agree with you, the writer didn’t handle it very well.
all the rest in this drama is amazingly incredible.

MariaF
MariaF
5 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

Maybe my wording wasn’t clear. I would’ve accepted her decision, if she were to leave the boy with the granny temporarily. But she didn’t.

I don’t know about property laws either. Even if the grandma could leave the house to Healer, bypassing her daughter, would she have made a stranger, who just came out of prison, an executor of her will? Maybe that grandma was the father’s mother? Then it would’ve made more sense.

When I was talking about being bad, but not too bad, I wasn’t talking about the mother per se. I was talking about how the writers handled her story. I’ve got an impression that they wanted her to be bad, but not too bad. So she was saying sorry and crying. They also got that evil brother to threaten her to make her more sympathetic.

It worked for some. I was reading viewers’ comments while watching the show on viki. People were writing something like ‘But she was trying to save him!’ In what world and how exactly was she saving him???

See, there are too many loose ends here for my taste. I like interpreting feelings/relationships, not fixing plot holes.

On the other hand, the romance part of the show is written well. Sometimes, the heroin’s mannerisms were a little bit young for her age, but it’s not a big deal.

eda harris
eda harris
5 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

maria,
I must have missed the coronation. really? you must have had amnesia! i was there, and even went to the after party and got drunk, remember?

beez
5 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

😆

beez
5 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

@MariaF – DIT TO THE TO!
I’ve been thinking that the grandmother could/might have been Jung hoo’s father’s mother. But either way, there is some weird thing in S.K. where people can sell your house out from under you and you’d never know until the new owners come to move in. This happened in the classic drama Full House. I thought it was some nonsense the writer made up as a contrivance to have the OTP live together, but the Korean-Americans at Dramabeans back then explained how it can happen. (I’m sorry but I don’t recall what they said.) I do know that I see articles that say that can happen even here in America (but I never bothered to read the full articles but I do know that here it is sophisticated con men who do it; whereas in Full House, it was FL’s friend.

MariaF
MariaF
5 months ago
Reply to  beez

@beez
I’ve read an article about these situations. Here is an example:
One day a woman couldn’t reach her elderly parents by phone (they lived in their own house). Her brother couldn’t reach them either. Turned out, some woman, a complete stranger, went to a sympathetic judge, who declared the parents mentally incompetent and made that woman their legal guardian. That con woman refused to tell the children where their parents were, sold the house and pocketed the money. The siblings eventually found their parents in some nursing home, but they couldn’t take them home, because the con woman was their legal guardian. Every time the daughter called the con woman to negotiate her parents’ release, the con woman sent her a bill: she charged the daughter an hourly rate for their conversation.
This kind of stories can give a person nightmares!

beez
5 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

Netflix has a movie about that type of situation. It’s called I Care A Lot.

As far as Full House goes, I think the house being sold so easily may have something you do with an individual’s personal seal. Most Koreans have a seal about the size of a lipstick that they use to verify their signature on documents. If dramas are accurate in this regard – the seal is not kept on your person at all times but is kept at home until you have to take it somewhere to sign something.

If Kfangurl sees this maybe she’ll remember how and why FL’s friend in Full House was able to sell her house without her permission.

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  Alexandra

@Alexandra – It might not show from my comment above yours, but earlier (or maybe that was in the spoiler thread), I specified that I meant – did she cut ties after she first left because it seemed as if Jung hoo had not seen her between the time she left and the time that he found her at the park with her new son. You’re talking about years later when they we’re in the restaurant and, yes, it was obvious that by then they had been staying in touch.

eda harris
eda harris
5 months ago
Reply to  Alexandra

alexandra,
She was threatened by Moon Shik so she might have felt it was better to distance herself from Jung Hoo in order to keep him safe.
it is naïve to think that if she will distance herself from her son, it will somehow keep him safe. it seems she understands the absolute cruel nature of moon shik and his people, thus supposedly she complied. but…nothing will stop them to do to whoever they want whatever they want, and if jung hoo is in their way for whatever reason, he will be dealt with accordingly, no matter if mother is in the picture or not. i believe she understands it and just using excuses. sorry, but i can not find forgiveness in my heart for this heartless mother. in the next episode 13 we will get some more clarity on that issue, so we’ll discuss it then.

eda harris
eda harris
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

@beez, this issue with the stone in teacher’s gut, that is probably the biggest question for me in this entire drama. i posted about it in the previous thread, but am going to post it here again, because i would like to hear from others what do they understand on this issue. so here it is:
everytime I look at you I get this hurting stone in my gut”,
it left me with a huge question, from the first time i watched it till now, which is still unanswered for me. what does the teacher mean by that stone in his gut? is it that painful because of the knowledge of what happened to all of them, is it painful to see how his protégé ended up alone in this world, is it too heavy of a burden to stay at healer’s side? something really almost tortures him when he thinks or sees healer junior. but what is it? you can’t say he just wanted to throw healer and this whole period out of his life and out of his psyche, you can’t just say he did not care for him deeply and loved him – sacrificing one’s life for another is the highest degree of love itself.
or is it that the writer simply did not know himself how to present it and why and for what reason. or is it something entirely different that i am missing here?

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

@eda – yes. Those are exactly the questions that I want answers to.

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

I suspect it is guilt. At least, it’s a part of it.

The teacher didn’t protect Healer’s father, who was his friend. He didn’t find the girl.

He knew something was fishy about that murder story and the Evil Brother’s fortunes, but he didn’t finish his friends’ investigation and didn’t clear their names. He didn’t find those responsible for that tragedy.

He gave up.

And Healer ended up being a son of a murderer. And alone. So the teacher might have felt responsible for all of that and sorry for Healer.

Of course, his guilt wasn’t rational: it wasn’t in his power to save them all. But I guess it didn’t make things easier on the teacher, because feelings are often irrational.

eda harris
eda harris
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

He didn’t find those responsible for that tragedy., 
guilt. yes… and kind of no. after all he was in prison all these years, and after he came out, he embarked on raising this boy, all by himself, with no experience at all in this department. i am sure, it was not easy and quite time consuming. it seems he also paid close attention to his studies. i do not really see how he could devote more of his time and energy to fight for justice and his friends. and if something would have happened to him due to this kind of involvement, who would be left to take care of jh? i am sure he considered that too.

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

Eda, I understand what you are trying to say, but I still stand by my comment.

As I said, guilty feelings are not always rational. Like survivor’s guilt. Sometimes people feel guilty, even when they know they couldn’t have done more. That tragedy was an extremely traumatic experience for everyone involved, including the teacher.

Also, I think it’s important to understand that the teacher must have felt terribly sorry for the boy being alone in that cold world. He was also aware of struggles that awaited Healer in the Korean society, even when he grows up, because of him being abandoned by his mother and being a son of a dead murderer.

And, rightly or wrongly, the teacher thought that Healer had autistic tendencies. Which was not great for him either.

The way I see it, that combination of guilt and feeling sorry for Healer contributed to “having a stone” in teacher’s stomach.

Last edited 6 months ago by MariaF
the_sweetroad
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

Good discussion, ladies.

The way I see it, that combination of guilt and feeling sorry for Healer contributed to “having a stone” in teacher’s stomach.

I am harping on this (and preaching to the choir) but this “stone” should have prevented Healer Sr from abandoning Healer so abruptly, without any previous communication that he was about to leave. And on Healer’s birthday!

It’s funny what this re-watch is doing to my emotions – the wrongdoing that those closest to Healer committed is becoming more amplified, and I’m realizing how much trauma Healer really had to bear.

I wonder if he ever thought Ahjumma might abandon him, too? Or his mother again?

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

but this “stone” should have prevented Healer Sr from abandoning Healer so abruptly

Not always, I guess. Sometimes a burden could become too heavy to carry or things could be too painful to bear, so people just bolt.

Healer’s mother is a perfect example of that.

But again, it could be a plot hole.

the_sweetroad
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

Hehe, it looked like Healer Sr wanted to bolt to find all the pretty ladies. But you’re right, maybe that was a superficial (and kind of sleazy) cover for some other real pain/ burden that was going on. Or he really did think it was time that Healer move forward on his own.

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

I can see Teacher being ready to cut loose in life. He’s kind of been in two prisons. The first one was real. The second one is the prison that is parenthood but in this case, it’s not even his own child. I can see that since he is a bit of a ladies’ man, he probably couldn’t indulge in a private life with Jung hoo there.
That said, no matter how much I admire his sacrifices, a “how ya doin’ kid?” once in a while would have been nice.

the_sweetroad
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

Totally agree with all of this, @beez. 🙂

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

That said, no matter how much I admire his sacrifices, a “how ya doin’ kid?” once in a while would have been nice.

It wouldn’t have been “nice”. It would have been normal.
I don’t have a problem with the teacher’s leaving. I have a problem with teacher’s disappearing without warning.

Last edited 6 months ago by MariaF
the_sweetroad
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

Yup. In an ideal world he would have prepared Healer for his leaving, and checked in with him once in a while.

eda harris
eda harris
6 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

guys, i posted my comment without seeing all of yours, so basically we are going in circles with this stone in the gut, guilt, nasty departure, no communications.

the_sweetroad
6 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

Haha, yup. But my secret agenda has been to get this thread up to 300+ posts, a special achievement you guys reached on the Ep 1 and 2 threads. 😆

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

If only we talked about Healer… Well, we did. A bit.

eda harris
eda harris
6 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

all right, i’ll help. an ambitious goal. go for it!

eda harris
eda harris
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

wouldn’t it cause more compassion in a case like this? i agree that guilt might have played a big role in this, but shouldn’t it make it even more love and concern and care for that abandoned kid. after all, he did “adopt” him, but almost seems like he couldn’t wait for him to grow up a little so he can throw away the chains of “parenthood”. it was so sudden, without explanation, without further communication. i do not accept that one can do it this way just out of guilt. there must be another explanation for this stone in his gut, or may be it was just teacher’s excuse in front of healer.

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

Eda,
It seems you are combining several things that are actually separate.

I didn’t say guilt made the teacher leave.

Mixture of guilt, feeling sorry for the boy and, yes, compassion, among other things, caused the teacher to feel as if he “had a stone in his stomach “ every time he looked at Healer.

Now, the reason why the teacher left could be that he wanted to finally enjoy his life and to be free (not to burdened by negative feelings and “parental” responsibilities.) Or he probably felt that Healer was ready to live independently. Since he was the boy’s teacher, not his parent, he probably thought he’d done enough to prepare Healer for future challenges that adult life might throw at him. Or all of the above, and then some.

Now, why the teacher left so abruptly and never got in touch with Healer afterwards requires a separate explanation.

Of courses, we could think that he left that way and cut all ties with Healer, because, again, he wanted to free himself from all these complicated negative feelings (guilt, compassion, etc), or he wanted to toughen Healer up, or … (insert anything).

Not to sound cynical, but I personally am inclined to think the writers just doubled down on making Healer’s mother/teacher behave horribly, so they can first make Healer lonely, angry and disillusioned, and then fix him later on by introducing him to YS.

I could be wrong.

eda harris
eda harris
6 months ago
Reply to  MariaF

maria,
Mixture of guilt, feeling sorry for the boy and, yes, compassion, among other things, caused the teacher to feel as if he “had a stone in his stomach “ every time he looked at Healer.
but if you feel his pain-wouldn’t it be natural and normal to try to soften the blows of life for this young man, rather than abandoning him. teacher proved that he had a great degree of care for healer, (by raising him) but his abrupt disappearance from healer’s life, in the middle of his birthday- is a total opposite of his previous behavior. that is why it is even more troubling for us to understand. and yes, it can be all these various reasons that you, and me and others here brought up – they are all possibilities. and yet, he continued to monitor healer’s life through ahjuma, (who seemed to be his partner and sort of friend from the time from prison), but wouldn’t contact his student directly. what is this about? also “the stone”? then he would have lived with his pacific beauties without the “stone”, but he still kept this thread of communication through ahjuma, thus not letting this “stone” go. it does not seem that not looking directly at healer, cured him from the painful “stone in the gut”. therefore this excuse does not work for me, i do not believe that is the reason. what is the real reason – i do not know. back to the starting point.

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

Eda,
As I wrote in my comment earlier, in my mind I divide my analysis of teacher’s behavior in three separate sections/questions:

Why did the teacher feel he had a stone in his stomach?

Why did he leave?

Why did he leave so abruptly?

One of the possible answers to the last question could be yours, which was “he wanted to make Healer even tougher”.

However, that’s what I wrote about the teacher’s haste departure and his subsequent disappearance:

Not to sound cynical, but I personally am inclined to think the writers just doubled down on making Healer’s mother/teacher behave horribly, so they can first make Healer lonely, angry and disillusioned, and then fix him later on by introducing him to YS.

Unless someone else comes up with a better, more logical explanation, I’m sticking with this one.

In the end, we might have to accept the fact that Healer was not written by Leo Tolstoy.

the_sweetroad
6 months ago
Reply to  eda harris

Good point, Eda, he had been in prison as well. I keep forgetting that. Seems like Healer Jr was on his mind during his time in prison, which is admirable. And that he found Healer Jr and cared for him afterward…also very admirable.

eda harris
eda harris
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

@beez, in regards to their date. i think it was kind of quirky-romantic. sometimes some mysticism adds to the excitement of the moment and even elevates the heart beat and all the other good stuff. the candles leading the way into the theater was very charming and even sensual – expectation, expectation, expectation. if she is not completely infatuated yet, this will do it, in my opinion. with healer’s inexperience, he couldn’t have done it better. and love is blind, why does she need to see him in the theater? she plays along.

now, healer’s relationship with mother, another heavy question, but i’ll wait to see more. but something definitely is not sitting well with me, that he seems to care about her that much. how? when did it start? how could this develop?

phl1rxd
phl1rxd
5 months ago
Reply to  beez

@Beez – I have not been planning to join this Healer GW but your in depth and enthusiastic comments changed my mind. Great job on assisting FG with this. So I just finished my 3rd watch – it is still as good as the first!

beez
6 months ago

Who, pretending to be Young shin, actually texted Cyber Detective to go to that location and why? I know logically it had to be Moonshik/The Weasel because they set up the trap but it makes no sense. If Cyber Detective catches Healer, that throws a wrench in Moon shik’s plan to “own” Healer. What were they trying to accomplish by having Cyber Detective there? And if CD saw SS goons capturing Healer, wouldn’t they just be creating an extremely credible witness of their actions? And just why didn’t CD see the fight? Where exactly is he in that garage that he’s there but misses everything?

the_sweetroad
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

@beez, at what minute did someone text Detective Yoon? I must have missed that. I know he saw people starting to mobilize and that van drive by…and I thought that’s why he started following them and ended up in the garage with them. It seemed the last contact he had with Young Shin was their phone call when they agreed to meet at the mall. But then he got distracted by that van.

the_sweetroad
6 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

Just looked again. At minute 47:28 CYS tells Moon Ho she’ll meet with the detective first. Then around minute 48:00 Detective Yoon gets a text from CYS wanting to meet. But then at minute 50:00 Detective Yoon calls CYS and they plan to meet at Eastern Mall. Is there any contact between them after that?

(I’m just curious because to me it hadn’t seemed like anyone was luring Detective Yoon…but I could be wrong!)

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

@the_sweetroad – oh! you’re right. Thanks for going back to check because as I read your firat comment I was like “I must’ve been dozing again. I’ll have to go back and watch again” but, you’re absolutely right. That is why she kept thinking Healer was losing it when she kept giving him directions to the Eastern Mall.

And now, since you said that, I remember Cyber Det. following the SS Goons as they ran out of the office. But then that brings me back to my question – since he followed them, how did he miss all the action?

Thanks @the_sweetroad!

Last edited 6 months ago by beez
the_sweetroad
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

Seriously! How did he miss all the violence that was being aimed toward Healer? Crimes were committed! He must have been so distracted by trying to hack the system.

And do we think that ahjumma and Detective Yoon were both messing up each other’s hacking (canceling each other out) or do we think that someone from SS or from Moon Shik’s side actually took down the IT system?

beez
6 months ago
Reply to  the_sweetroad

@the_sweetroad – I’m not sure. I saw Cyber Detective looking at the surveillance cameras as if he were trying to hack that. Ohhhhh! Just typing that makes me think it was SS company doing the hacking. They must’ve known that Healer must have a computer accomplice who would be hacked into the cameras so they took that opportunity to block her view (so she couldn’t warn Healer) and to reverse hack at the same time and Cyber Detective got caught as he was entering the cameras at the same time. (Not that I know a dat gone thing about computers…

MariaF
MariaF
6 months ago
Reply to  beez

It could’ve been SS guys. Or ahjumma and the detective could’ve kicked each other out. Or the mall could’ve had some kind of intrusion detection and information security system that detected all this hacking and triggered an alert, thus kicking all of them out.

Kim
Kim
6 months ago

I have to say, and I know I’ve said it before, I LOVE this show. This is the first week where I almost could not wait to watch the next episode.. I really almost pushed ‘watch next’ on Kocowa.
I too loved the handhold after the movie, and hoped she would realize when their hands touched later when reaching for the pajamas that this person is healer.. so many feels in these episodes.
Leaving it on the edge with the last episode not knowing what will happen is so frustrating, but exhilarating as well. I might end up watching the next 2 episodes a few days early. We’ll see.