Well, I’ve finally caught up with the Group Watch. I originally thought I would have trouble not jumping ahead but as it turned out, It’s been tricky keeping up for a variety of reasons. These episodes are heart wrenching as Dae Gil’s world starts collapsing around him and his reason for living starts falling away as he sees Eon Nyeon happily married to Tae Ha. To top it off, Wangson is killed by Hwang and General Choi maybe next as he hurries to the fireworks signal he thinks is sent by Wangson.

A lot of my fears are materializing, back in episode 5 or so I was having serious doubts about Dae Gil’s and Eon Nyeon’s future together; there may yet be another twist but a happy Dae Gil Eon Nyeon ending seems very remote now. I worried from very early about Tae Ha’s ability to protect the prince and that is a very real issue now, Tae Ha is discovering that while he’s a good soldier and a great fighter, the best of his time, he is at sea with the political wrangling as I feared and his ability to protect the prince is badly compromised.

It seems to me that Dae Gil is being set up to go on a solo rampage for the rest of the show and this usually ends badly; Wangson is gone, General Choi is in imminent danger and he’s sending Seolhwa away. He’s lost Eon Nyeon, his reason for being, so it seems to me that either Tae Ha or him will not be around at the end or maybe it will be Eon Nyeon? The slaves are being set up by the Left State Councillor and it will be interesting to see how they are eventually tied into the main storyline.

This is not an optimistic show, every character is in some degree of pain or discomfort and the resolution of their situations will be interesting. Joseon world was a cruel world, to quote Thomas Hobbes, the life of man was solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short.

The acting is top notch, the pain in Dae Gil is visceral and unbearable, Lee Dae Ha finally shows up, the idealized version of beauty almost collapses when she sees Dae Gil, Jin Ho shows unexpected facets to his character and Sung Dong-il’s understated acting is exceptional. Hwang makes the transformation from a reluctant villain to a cold-hearted killer who has now added his father in law, the left State Councillor, to his targets. There is no weak link in the entire cast.

We’ve talked a lot, and I think we will continue of course, about the fight scenes and how it is established that Hwang and Song Tae Ha are the top fighters. Watching them in action is a feast to the eyes every time. Their sword-fighting scenes are beautiful, majestic, elegant, like ballet. I for sure, enjoy them very much.

But, I admit, I tend to enjoy Daegil and friends’ scenes a tad only a tad more, precisely because they are not as perfectly skilled, the sense of danger is heightened and the movements are much less predictable. I guess, they are enjoyable and exciting in a different way.

Wang Son’s agility and running across rooftops, his backflips, he is just fun fun fun to watch. And Daegil, Oh Daegil. Someone mentioned that when it comes to running, Daegil takes the top prize and I agree. It’s not just that he runs well but he expresses so much, that determination, that desperation, energy and passion. There was that scene of Daegil defeating a bunch of soliders when he stole their horses. Of course, they didn’t pose much of a threat (someone joked they were like stormtroopers) but Jang Hyuk looked so fabulous there! Ahhh he is so sexy.

And I couldn’t help but think that it’s his obsession/determination that makes him go on this “crazy mode” that allows him to defeat even 10 men easily, more than prowess or physical ability, it’s that extra passion for (whatever it is that drives him) that takes on a life of its own. It’s like “the force” (of Unnyun?) is with him :p Something also could be said about him having less of a set of rules to follow, given that he is a self-taught streetfighter not a formally educated warrior, which in a way makes him more free and unpredictable, agile, fluid, etc.

All of you have already done such great analysis and given me, food for thought for decades, so I’m just going to simply share what I felt while watching these eps (and drowning in tears)

• That scene of Daegil crying on the streets always gets to me. I’m trying to remember my reaction the first time I watched it and I think it must’ve been something similar to Seolhwa’s (stunned, shocked). As I rewatched the scene to comment on it right now, I felt something not just in my heart but also my stomach and I’m left almost shaking. I think this was the moment when I stopped trying to understand or reason with Daegil and I just let myself go with the feelings. I no longer care if he is right or wrong and I just want someone to hug this man.

I’m with Snow. Jang Hyuk’s hands deserve their own Daesang. The moment his hands faced up as he was praying, my goodness (btw, did you notice his hands had some cuts? And they looked real)

• And then SeolHwa’s words (Im going to paraphrase a version that I remember and liked more than what Viki had)
“I saw a man cry…I was happy to see a man could cry like that. But I was also sad. Sad because no man will ever cry like that for me”

That SeolHwa’s speech. I’ve always felt it deeply, its not just about her love for Daegil which is unrequited (and that’s what Viki’s version sounds like) it’s more about how she simply has no hope, in this world, to ever be loved, because of her past. The fact that it’s not just her thinking this, but the whole world agreeing with her, is what’s more painful.

• When Daegil spies over the newlyweds lol, I don’t know if this is common knowledge or practice but, my Korean friend told me that, when a person turns the shoes around like he did, it’s to make if more comfortable for the person who is stepping out of the house to put the shoes back on. I guess poor Daegil wanted to have a last nice gesture with her as insignificant and unnoticeable as it may be.

• Then comes the scene where he asks his brothers and Seol Hwa about her dreams. I never thought he was identifying with SeolHwa then (since both their dreams are impossible) Thank you whoever mentioned this, it adds something more to my appreciation (and more tears, gee, thanks? Lol)

• The Olmana joaaaahhh scenen (Daegil telling General Choi he bought land for them with the money he was taking from them). I think Jang Hyuk looked so beautiful during this scene. And how grateful is my heart that General Choi is with him. General Choi, is such a wonderful loyal beautiful friend.

• The scene when Lee Da Hae reminds me what a GREAT actress she is. That scene of her finding Daegil again on the street market still makes me shake too (I shake a lot watching this drama lol). Her eyes! Their eyes!!! I just love how in tune LDH and JH are as actors. They really speak loads with those eyes. I could absolutely feel what Unnyun must’ve been feeling at this very moment. And no, I’m not going to speculate if Daegil was no longer the man for her since he has changed so much, or wonder if she would’ve still married Taeha if this encounter happened one day before (but If I were to, I’d say NO lol) This scene sells to me the idea that Daegil was still in her heart. I don’t know if it’s the writing but the acting, their (acting) chemistry, certainly tells me that. (And then her tears as she remembers their moments together, that tender kiss they shared, sorry but Taeha who? :p I know my bias shows way too much, sorry but please forgive me, these episodes do this to me)

• And finally, Wangsonahhhhhhhhhh (Terminator Hwang is damn scary!)
PS: I hate Oh and I hope he gets punished. He angered me more than Hwang ever will, because Hwang is predictable at the moment. He is on that killing rampage, on terminator mode and makes no apology about it. We sorta know what to expect. Loyalty, consideration for another human life, for example, would not be something I’d expect from him. He is not even pretending to understand the concepts. But Oh, ok Im not saying I thought he was a “good” guy, but I did not necessarily think him capable of that cruelty and lack of remorse. He destroyed the horse doctor and showed not one ounce of remorse or pity, nothing. Then he wanted to go one like nothing happened. It was shocking and well, it showed pretty vividly the cruelty of Chuno’s world. Like the jumo’s and the painter said, they are only one “inch”above slaves and their lives could be destroyed in one second too.

@BE, I have seen Lee Jong Hyuk in only one drama besides Chuno, A Gentleman’s Dignity. The drama is so-so, and I only watched it for him. But the character he plays there is an immature and philandering husband whom I did not like. The fault is not the actor’s, but rather the writer’s. But he did have good sense of comedy and a really excellent singing voice!

Just noticed that the blog has, as of now, exactly 1000 followers! Kudos to kfangurl on this mathematical milestone…

One other thought–thank you K for commenting on Sung Dong Il’s continuing bravura performance as Ji Ho. He is a rather minor character in the sweep of the whole, but as I have been repeating over and over, without him, without that performance Chuno would be so diminished. And here again, it is not just how he enacts Ji Ho by himself but how one can feel how his enactment raises the level of the other actors sharing scenes with him, in this case both Ahn Sook Hwan who plays the timorous artist and Ha Si Eun (Hwang’s wife) who goes toe to toe with Sung Dong Il when it comes to physically expressing her character’s emotions, in this case horror, outrage, and despair. Watching the two of them together ought be something for an entire actor’s workshop.

This week’s episodes marks the second turning point for Dae Gil as he lets go of Un Nyun, finally admits the guilt eating inside him from the cries of the slaves they catch, and attempts to start anew.

While I know I already should expect greatness from Jang Hyuk’s acting, it still surprised me. I’ve seen moments of heartbreak a lot in film and tv but Dae Gil’s breakdown in the marketplace (along with him kneeling and turning his palms up in the temple) will probably rank among the most memorable for me in kdramaland.

I’m sorry if there are Oh Ji Ho fans here, this is my first time watching him in anything and while I was fine with him/enjoyed his scenes as a runaway slave, his facial expressions the past four episodes can be summed up simply as… bland. Even if he’s happy and content having Un Nyun beside him, everything is just so lukewarm about him. Even the soldier Han Seom, with his limited screen time, conveyed his feelings with much more depth and warmth than our newly married general.

Speaking of generals, General Choi looked fantastic in his show down with Commander Hwang and the completely unnecessary but fantastic fireworks fest was the perfect backdrop for it.

And Wang Son. I’m hoping he’s still alive somehow but that moment of artistic camerawork when he realized the danger behind him makes me think that’s his final moment of Chuno glory.

I having nothing of intellectual value to add to what has gone before, so I’ll leave with my main thought after these two hours:

Wang-SONNNNNNNNNNN!

I am going to preface my immediate reax with a coupla comments about the previous two episodes, that I gave up on after writing a forty five minute entry that disappeared last week as a result of accidentally leaving the page.

To be honest, I was pretty fed up with Dae Gil in episodes 11 & 12. His drunken braggadoccio, his complaint about Eon Nyeon not having the right to be happy when he had lived the life of a slave hunter reeking of all the bs nobleman’s arrogance about class and slaves, his stealing half of the general’s saved up poor scholar’s stash, his ruthless killing of the scholar’s bodyguards–feh! Dae Gil was becoming as unlikable and pathetic as anyone other than Lefty and Hwang in this drama.
Secondly, I could not help but notice the feminist (in the best sense) bend to the narration–the women in Chuno not only were forced to put some back bone into their men all up and down the line, but were also demanding real authenticity, especially vis a vis Seol Hwa with Dae Gil, Cho Bok with Eop Bok, and Eon Nyeon with Seol Hwa. There was even a kind of feminist bend to Wang Son’s philandering. Is he the only man in all of Joseon who understands that women like sex? That they ache because of their men’s inability to register their longing for physical intimacy?
Then there was Hwang (and let me put my two cents in here about Hwang–Lee Jong Hyuk is simply terrific and in many ways just about upstages everyone except Jang Hyuk in this drama, and while I do get the root of Hwang’s sociopathy, for me, at least, he is an unredeemable villain, a mass murderer with nothing more than a scoundrel’s ambition when it gets down to it as motivation). His projection of all his inner poison on his wife seemed to epitomize just how women seem to have been largely considered in Chuno’s Joseon.
Women are viewed as sex toys, property as wives and daughters, subject to murderous jealousy, becoming a gisaeng their best business opportunity (even Ms. Smile knows she is dependent on Lefty in the Black Hat), subject to continuous sexual harassment as independent innkeepers, depicted as servants and slaves, and utterly absent from all the avenues of power–they cannot be scholars, ministers, warriors (the assassin was from China), and in Chuno, they are not even represented among the royalty.
The ultimate coup de grace–the scholars intolerance of Eon Nyeon, which went beyond merely a strategic consideration imo. However accurate to the time that depiction may or may not have been, I cannot help but think that along with Chuno’s deep seated expression of distaste for slavery, the upshot of class, and the machinations of political elites, the writers were also making a very strong statement about how women have been viewed and treated in the historical past.

So… that lead me to these two episodes. First of all this: I did not remember exactly when during my first watching that Dae Gil, beyond the flash and acting charisma of Jang Hyuk, really won me over, but in this viewing it was in the opening scenes of Episode 13, which appears to be the beginning, perhaps, of a second story-line for our hero, the arc of his redemption. Face to face with actually seeing Eon Nyeon happy, in love, no matter how much the the torture, the heart rending hopelessness, and rising bile of disquieted jealousy stuck in his craw, his love for her kicks in. He cannot, for love of Eon Nyeon, attack Song Tae Ha, seeing how vividly happy Tae Ha makes her seem to feel.
And then when he just collapses in the street and cuts loose–ten years of longing for what has turned out to be worse than nothing, his whole reason for being a delusion of his grandiose obsession upon which he has placed his entire hope, his whole heart cut out and rising out of his throat to the universe–ah, how can we not feel, how can anyone who has ever had a broken heart, and that includes most of us, or carried a torch at one time or another unrequitedly, and that too a common enough human experience, how can we not feel for Lee Dae Gil in that moment. Even the beautiful Jang Hyuk as Lee Dae Gil suffers the pangs of the love lorn–that secret no one admits too but everyone understands in song and drama.
The scene in the temple, the upshot of his existential disquiet since meeting with Eon Nyeon’s brother, the absurdity of existence–how can there possibly be an enlightened being in such an absurd world, and yet his come to Buddha moment of…a kind of wretch’s awe for such a being, ah again another universal heart of the matter for most of us who are not enlightened, whose lives at times against the great tide of events in this world seem utterly diminished and absurd, while being hip enough to understand that there are enlightened beings out there, beings whom like Dae Gil wishes for Buddha, we wish well on their mission to raise us all up from the darkness of our absurdity.

And later when Dae Gil in conversation with the gang about what they would do with the money, when he chides Wang Son for scorning Seol Hwa’s dream of settling down with a decent guy and not having to wonder about where her next meal comes from: this is the Dae Gil who is the hero of Chuno. His discussion with the General at the river about how all this time he had been planning for them, putting money down on land–so the General might be able to have a plot of land where his kids could play with chickens, and Wang Son could become an innkeeper, spelling out the tawdriness of their lives as slave hunters only adds to this–this too, the hero of Chuno.

There are of course other elements of these two episodes: the realization of Tae Ha and his men that their mission may well just be replacing one group of politicians who care more for their own personal gain than that of a higher fate for the nation; Ji Ho becoming an ever more sympathetic character; the utterly cruel and absurd fate of old inn stable master, who despite being the worst sort of handsy dirty old man does not deserve the fate of becoming enslaved.
There is the sleaze bag Officer Oh, an extraordinarily despicable as well as pathetic caricature of the worst that comes to mind when thinking of a sycophantic police functionary. And here again, don’t by contrast the jumos seem, despite each their own tunnel vision and somewhat pathetic place in the Chuno world, vastly superior characters to the Officer Oh, the old stable master, and the artist?
There is the intrigue between the Chinese envoy and King In Jo in which the slave assassins are somehow set up to attack the undercover spies dressed as nobles sent by the envoy to…what exactly?
There is Eon Nyeon coming face to face with Dae Gil, the power of that. While I always wish there were a bit more there there with Eon Nyeon, she is at times such a touching character.
And finally, first how much I really like the General–he has to be the single most likable character in the whole show–what has happened, and where we are at the end of episode 14: Wang Son?!!!! General Choi?!!!! And puh lease, I have less than zero sympathy of Officer Hwang–on this account I can only say: Team Chun Ji Ho.

@Trent, I think that the strangely comforting vibe that rogue Commander Hwang exudes comes from his embracing of his true self.
I am also wondering if anyone is investigating the string of yangban murders he has committed. He is not trying to hide his evil deeds and displays the ID tags of his victims in a rather matter-of-fact way.

Is anyone crying yet? There were so many powerful scenes in these episodes. Kfangurl, your description of Daegil’s breakdown is so accurate! I also like Daegil’s praying scene at the temple. I think he needed to find some kind of peace in order to keep living. Deciding not to pursue Song Tae Ha for Eonnyeon’s sake was an act not only of love, but also of maturity.

And buying land for General Choi and Wangson was so thoughtful and considerate! I think Daegil bought the land when he received the 5000 nyang payment from Left State Councilor Lee back in Episode 4.

Jang Hyuk’s hands deserve another acting award for the temple scene.

The scene when Daegil asks General Choi, Wangson, and Seol Hwa about their dreams gets more heartbreaking with every rewatch. Daegil knows that he and Seol Hwa are in the same situation: their dreams will never come true. Poor Seol Hwa’s reaction to Daegil’s breakdown is just as heartbreaking as Daegil’s weeping.

Cheon Ji Ho’s loyalty to his underlings is very moving. And even in his grief he sees through Officer Oh’s intentions.

Poor Horse Doctor. He did not deserve this fate…

Commander Hwang has gone totally rogue and unhinged. His dialog with the Old Yangban gave us a glimpse of his worldview: everyone desires power and everyone is corrupt. Power and sincerity don’t mix. In an earlier thread we discussed Commander Hwang’s self hatred. He does not hide it anymore.

Kfangurl, I agree with your assessment of DG&Co. fighting skills. They are very good, but none of them is a match for Song Tae Ha or Commander Hwang. My guess is that our trio has never dealt with someone with formal training and actual combat experience. Had they all worked together, maybe they might have won a fight against Commander Hwang, but they meet him in the worst possible circumstances and he can easily defeat them one by one…

Whew, these were a fraught couple of episodes. We’re on the downhill side now, and what, they’re just going to kill everybody off? We’ve still got ten eps, Show!

Okay, so I swear, I was yelling at my screen at the end of episode 13. Daegil is finally hitting bottom, he’s suffering, yes, but he also seems to be acknowledging that his old love that he’s been carrying around in his heart like a huge rock all this time has gotten married and moved on, and he’s showing signs of coming to terms with it (okay, lurking around outside the bridal chamber is more than a bit of a creepin’ vibe, but at least he didn’t try to bust in and interrupt the…festivities). So he’s confessing to General Choi that he’s set aside some land for all of them, time to get out of the sleazy dangerous slave hunting life, and I’m like, yes, settle down, be good, heal your heart, maybe let that sweet young lady who thinks the world of you in and see what happens. And then…it’s like the sliding avalanche of inevitability, Daegil and Eunyeon in the same marketplace, this can’t have a good ending…aw, man, why she have to see him?! Arrgh.

Poor Seol-hwa. I feel you, little one. So happy one moment that “orebeoni” is buying fabric for her…dreams crushed the next.

I’m feeling a strange…something for Commander Hwang at this point. Don’t get me wrong, I still hate him, and still don’t find what he does excusable, but he’s like the avatar of bad-ass, evil villain at this point in a way that’s almost…comforting? I don’t know, it’s a weird reaction.

And of course, the brotherhood of the three amigos, sundered by Hwang’s evil skill. I feel kind of bad for Wangson, even though it’s tinged with exasperation since it was his own stupid hubris that sent him off on his own and made him vulnerable. I am, with much trepidation, assuming bad things happen to General Choi as well, just based on where it ended and the next episode preview (I haven’t watched ahead), and that bums me out a lot more, because the General was seriously one of my favorite characters. Just a really solid dude. It’s going to suck if he’s not in the story anymore.

So yeah, now I’m curious what’s going to happen over the next ten episodes.