Open Thread: The Red Sleeve Episodes 1-2

Welcome to the Open Thread, everyone! Thanks for joining in on this group watch of this very special show! ❤️

As I mentioned in my announcement post, these are my notes, exactly as they appear on Patreon.

ZERO SPOILER POLICY

We will be adopting a ZERO SPOILER POLICY for this Open Thread, except for events that have happened in the show, up to this point.

This includes, but is not limited to, how characters &/or relationships develop, later in the show.

The spoiler tags don’t work in email notifications, therefore, please take note that WE WILL NOT BE USING SPOILER TAGS FOR THIS OPEN THREAD. 

We need to protect the innocent! 😉

Without further ado, here are my reactions to this set of episodes; have fun in the Open Thread, everyone! ❤️

My thoughts

Episode 1

E1. This is one instance where I feel like this first episode was solid, but also, that the entire thing was just an opening act, to get us to the actual story.

As a result, even though I feel like I’ve watched a lot of happenings on my screen so far, it somehow also feels like I haven’t actually started the story proper yet. Does that make sense?

To be brutally honest, I found this opening episode just ok. It didn’t blow me away, nor did I feel extremely engaged (versus the opening episode of The King’s Affection, for example).

I’m sorry to say that in spite of Show’s painstaking efforts to lay the groundwork, I found this episode almost.. perfunctory? 🙊

Like, there are X number of things that need to be in place, in order for Event Y to happen, and these X number of things are trotted out, one after the other, in quick succession, so much so that we can basically see Event Y coming at us, from a good distance away.

When stuff shakes out this way, the most important thing is the delivery by the actors, and while I found our child actors solid, again, they didn’t blow me away.

I do tend to generally give child actors a lot of leeway, because they are so young, after all, but maybe it’s just my mood; I found them just ok, even though our young prince does a solid job of some of his more difficult crying scenes, and our young court lady in training is nicely precocious.

It all just comes together as rather archetypical, to my eyes, unfortunately.

All that said, I consider this more or less par for the course, as a necessary set-up to our main story, which looks like it’s ready to kick off properly, with the time skip and our characters growing up, by the end of the episode.

I’ll also say that even though I found it rather perfunctory in writing, execution and delivery, Show does a solid job of telling us things that we need to know, in order to position us properly, for the Main Story.

Here’s a quick list of the story-specific things that I appreciated about this opening episode:

1. The young court ladies in training are a bright spot. I like the look of the sea of pink and blue, when they are gathered together, and I also like the youthful vibe that they bring to the palace, which is a very adult sort of setting.

2. I always find Jang Hye Jin a delight; I love her comic timing and expressiveness, so her Court Lady Seo was a highlight for me, just by virtue of the fact that she’s played by Jang Hye Jin.

3. A childhood connection between the OTP is basically par for the course in a story like this, so I did roll my eyes slightly, on principle.

However, the execution of this was.. not bad, I felt. It did feel clichéd and predictable, but I liked the idea that Deok Im turned out to be a forthright, sensible yet sensitive source of support for Yi San, at a vulnerable moment in his life.

In particular, I liked Deok Im’s reframing of Crown Princess Young’s death for Yi San, because it causes his greatest regret, to become his source of comfort.

Rather than thinking that the Crown Princess died never knowing how he feels, he now thinks of it as her finally knowing how he feels, because the dead know everything.

4. The scene of Deok Im sitting with the King, as he pays his respects to Crown Princess Young, is quite nice.

I like the idea of the King’s gift of the book to Deok Im, but I thought the bit where he says to her, that her fate might follow in the footsteps of Crown Princess Young’s, rather heavy-handed.

Like, we know this, Show, you don’t have to spell it out for us like this in big blinking lights. 😅

And here are a few story-specific things that gave me pause:

1. Court Lady Jo and her spiel to young Deok Im, about how it’s every court lady’s dream to die in the palace, struck me as pretty dysfunctional.

I personally didn’t like this beat, even though I think it’s Show’s intention, to give us insight into Court Lady Jo and what makes her tick.

2. I feel like the idea that King Youngjo’s a little bit mad, like his son Sado had been, is a good one that is likely to drive our story forward.

I just found the execution rather archetypical, and a touch hyperbolic. Like, ok, this king is supposed to be a little crazy; here are X number of events to demonstrate that.

3. I already don’t really like Deok Ro. Just the fact that he lies to Yi San about how the page in the book came to be torn, gives me pause.

If he’s lying to Yi San at this young age for self-gain, isn’t it likely that he’s going to do more of that, on a bigger scale, once they grow up?

I suppose this is by design, ie, that’s just how his character is designed, but yeah, I’m on guard against this character already.

4. I like Lee Se Young, but I have to confess that the extremely bright, run-everywhere sort of quality to her character, is throwing me somewhat. I think I prefer when Lee Se Young is more serious and restrained. 😅

All that said, even though the ending of the episode is completely clichéd, I liked that moment, just before the credits rolled.

For one thing, Deok Im’s squarely in that more restrained space, and then, there’s the introduction of adult Yi San, which, in just 2 seconds of screen time, is working very well, for me.

I like Lee Jun Ho when he’s playing more serious, and Yi San is exactly that.

I know it’s not much to go on, but I really like the sense of steady smolder that we’re getting from Yi San, in these last seconds. And this is the main reason I’m actually curious to keep watching this show, despite my just ok experience with his first episode.

If Lee Jun Ho as Yi San is going to be serving up this sort of moderate-to-intense level of smolder, I feel like I could very possibly roll with this. 😉

Episode 2

E2. Remember how I said I was just ok with episode 1, but expected to get into Show more, if Lee Jun Ho was allowed to serve up some consistent smolder? Muahahaha. The smolder is here, my friends, and I am here for it! 🤩😁

I mean, there is a sense of tropeyness running through this episode, but somehow, I found this episode very amusing and very enjoyable.

And that smolder? Totally made everything more delicious, heh.

The way we are properly introduced to adult Yi San, with him so intent on the tiger hunt, is just the sort of thing to set me up for hearts in my eyes.

He’s so focused, decisive and deliberate, as he goes about hunting down that elusive tiger.

And, that look on his face, as his attendants put on his outer robe for him, is just so offhandedly smoldery, like, “I know I’m cool (and hot), and I don’t care.” Ha.

Also, I feel inexplicably tickled by the whole situation between Yi San and Deok Im, as she interacts with him, having no idea that he is the Crown Prince.

His disgruntled expressions and shocked sputter make me laugh, and I find myself lapping up all the veiled identity hijinks with glee.

This episode, I find that Deok Im’s growing on me nicely, as in, I somehow find her less over-the-top now, compared to last episode, and I can’t quite figure out why, since she’s essentially the same. Maybe I’m more used to the tone that they’re going for with her.

Plus, I do think that Show’s gunning more for funny rather than cute, with the tone around Deok Im, and that’s landing for me very nicely.

Lee Se Young’s got good comic timing, and I found myself giggling at the water scene, even though there was nothing particularly inventive about it. The execution just worked, for me.

I also like the detail, that Deok Im likes it when she gets to make a choice; that having control over various things in her life, brings her joy.

This cognizance of hers, that she values personal agency, is a nice foundation on which to build her character.

And perhaps because Show lays this out early, it feels like all the other, more lighthearted stuff layered on top of it, has a solid foundation of sorts, to stand on. Does that make sense?

Another detail that I liked, this episode, is the festival for the court ladies. It’s so carnival-like, and so festive.

I like the idea that even though the court ladies dedicate their lives to serving in the palace, that they get time to have fun like this.

I gotta say, thanks to Deok Ro making that decision to claim the credit of tearing out the offending pages in the book all those years ago, I am viewing him with a decided amount of suspicion.

Like when he offers to investigate the sender of the secret message for Yi San, I can’t help wondering if he’s the one who’d sent the message.

He does seem perfectly pleasant and gentlemanly on the surface, though, so it’s possible that I’ve misjudged him for a lone incident in his youth. We’ll have to see.

Yi San pretending to be Deok Ro in front of Deok Im amuses me more than it should, in the sense that the way it’s played isn’t all that surprising, and yet, I find myself giggling through most of it, like I’m seeing this sort of stuff for the first time.

Very well played, Show.

I’m also suitably amused the running gag of Deok Im trying to write that apology letter, only to have Yi San – as himself – continually rejecting every iteration of it that she serves up.

This is the sort of thing that gets funnier as it gets dragged out, and by the time Deok Im’s barely containing her frustration, even as she kneels before the Crown Prince, I’m thoroughly amused.

I have to confess that I’m somehow still not feeling the younger version of Yi San, there’s just something about the young actor’s performance that doesn’t quite ring true for me.

However, I appreciate the note of pathos that we get in adult Yi San as a result, as he thinks back on that memory, of being rejected by his father.

The other side of Yi San that I appreciated seeing this episode, is his cheeky side.

The amused smirk, as he realizes that the court lady prostrate before him, is none other than the audacious library maid who’d chased him out with a broom and thrown salt at him, is pretty great.

His desire to haze her for it, lands cheeky to me, rather than malicious, and I was suitably tickled at the various lengths he goes to, to avoid speaking out loud in front of Deok Im, so as to conceal his identity.

I like that in the midst of the funny, Show takes time to have Deok Im actually help Yi San with finding that map, and tell him that she thinks he’s a great person. That moment feels guileless and genuine, and I can see how this affects Yi San.

This is likely a rare (perhaps the only?) occasion when someone tells him something positive about himself in a frank and unguarded manner, without taking his identity as the Crown Prince into account.

I can see why that would be touching and important to him.

I’m curious as to why Yi San drags Deok Im out of the library, where he’s got her on night duty, and tells her that he needs her to read a book, to help him with his tiger hunt.

What I want to know is, 1, how exactly does that help him with the tiger hunt, and 2, will this blow his cover with Deok Im?

Next Open Thread will be up on: Saturday, 13 July 2024!

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

37 Comments
MMMhway
MMMhway
1 year ago

I watched ‘The Throne’ many years before TRS.
I loved it.
When I first saw episode 1 & 2 of TRS, it felt like a direct continuation of the movie.

I felt the burden in Yi San’s heart as a Royal heir.

When DI read the folktale about 2 royal siblings, San’s expression changed and it reminded me of the young San in’The Throne’ ,who tried to do everything to please his grandfather. The reason for doing this was he wanted to reduce Yeongjo’s anger on Sado for Sado’s incompetence.But later his grandpa saw San as a heir more than his mad father. He unintentionally became a rival to his father .(Royal Family was never easy. )

When Junho did this expression, I had already known he would steal my heart in later episodes as a Melo King.

Last edited 1 year ago by MMMhway
Elaine
Elaine
1 year ago
Reply to  MMMhway

Indeed, the story of the two brothers narrated by Duk Im, overlaid with San’s memory of his father saying the same thing “You were born to kill me” was so good. It’s only in movies and TV that you can do this kind of overlay and resonance between last and present moments.

MMMhway
MMMhway
1 year ago

Another Historical Context I like to add is Joseon’s power was consolidated around Noble Class (Yangban /Confucius scholars) because Joseon’s architect was Jeong Do Jeon.

In Sageuks, sometimes nobles seemed more powerful than the Royals ,especially the weak ones.

King Sukjong (who was a male lead character in dramas like Dongyi & Jang Ok Jung) tried to consolidate Royal Family power by changing political factions multiple times (Queen Inhyeon from Western faction to Queen Jang Ok Jung from Southern faction from to Lady Suk Bin from Western faction) .

King Sukjong had two sons with Lady Jang Hee Bin (Jang Ok Jung) & Lady Sukbin (Dongyi)

His son with Lady Sukbin was Prince Yeoning. (King Jeongjo) who was currently YiSan’s grandpa.

Lady Sukbin was the maid of the court ladies (aka a slave).

Western faction later separated into Noron & Soron.

With the Noron’s faction support, Yeoning rose to the throne as a King. But his mom being a slave was never erased from his history.

So ,if anything unfortunate happened in the country, Yeongjo always blamed his lineage .

His mom’s lineage was a defect to him, so Yeongjo would never tolerate a defect in his descendants , because he was afraid people might accuse these were due to his dirty blood.

It was extreme. So,he enforced his extreme Asian parenting style on CP Sado & later,on Yi San.(Which lead to Sado’s madness).

It was portrayed in the movie ‘The Throne’.

Last edited 1 year ago by MMMhway
P.Jasmine
P.Jasmine
1 year ago

Managed to finish first 2 episodes. And I should have watched this drama before My Dearest because while watching episode 1 I really couldn’t help compare with My Dearest. Anyways I stopped yesterday night and again I watched it today with a fresh pair of eyes and from episode 2 the drama gets better and comes into its own right.

Episode 1 was difficult to watch especially with the kind of things that the children are made to do (I grasped that 2 children are allowed to visit a dead person with no adult to supervise especially sending Deok-Im was crazy idea). Also I am not liking the King for the paranoia he has on his background and how he corners Yi San for reading that book. Yi San as a child has gone through severe trauma and he genuinely needs help and time away from it all – but it is a sageuk story and he is the Crown Prince and hence I need to accept this and move on I guess.

Episode 2 I really liked the fun moments (though unbelievable) especially after a crazy episode 1. Lee Junho as Yi San gives me the vibe of a rich snooty person who is an all-rounder and a first rank holder and is everyone’s favourite. I am not sure if I warm up to that kind of a character but it is only 2 episodes and hence I am willing to give him a chance and see how his character progresses. Deok – Im grows slowly on me and is definitely an erudite woman in her own right and first time watching Lee Se-young performance and hence will wait to comment.

Last edited 1 year ago by P.Jasmine
DeeLo
DeeLo
1 year ago

I wasn’t into historical k-dramas but my sister talked me into giving them a try. I’m so happy she did! Lee Junho was the main reason I added this drama to my watchlist. This is my first show with him in it and I’m loving it so far. I agree with kfangurl that episode 1 wasn’t fantastic BUT the second episode definitely hooked me! I already like the lead couple’s onscreen chemistry.

I was only planning on watching the first 2 episodes until I realized that I was on episode 5 and staying up way past my bedtime…lol. I also found it funny when Yi San pushed Deok Im into the books – I thought for sure it was going to be the “accidental kiss” scene. Ha!

PS – this is my first group watch and everyone’s comments are helping me better understand the show. Can’t wait for next week’s comments.

Yaya
Yaya
1 year ago

Ep 1 had me at the opening credits! 

A whole episode dedicated to their younger selves really hooked me. As well as a great way to give the viewer more insight into the context of palace politics. I thought the whole episode well illustrated the tenuous nature of royal life in this times, for both the monarch and those in his family, as well as those in their households. 

I imagine being the King’s grandson is quite terrifying. Not only because of his paranoia and megalomania, but also as a child, to have someone who is supposed to take care of you be so unpredictable and stern is really scary. It also broke my heart when he asked his grandmother if she would do the same to him as she did to his father, should he also turn out to be “like his father”. Knowing the history of Prince Sado, this is truly scary. 

As we rounded out episode 2 I find myself invested in both leads and suspicious of Deok Ro, as well as the King’s concubines…and who is that shadow figure court lady? And the assassins? Lots of meaty content teased out. And I always love a case of mistaken identity – a trope since Shakespeare for a reason!

Perhaps my favorite moments are the borderline slapstick humor threads – when the Prince as Deok Ro catches Deok Im only to shove her into the books. I guffawed.

Elaine
Elaine
1 year ago
Reply to  Yaya

I’m with you Yaya, I loved the light moments especially San and Duk Im being snide to each other and the classic catch you when you’re falling but no let me just nudge you so you go back upright and smack goes Duk Im into the books lol!

The grandfather is such a jovial sweetheart, until he gets threatened and it’s like a switch goes off and the mad king comes out to play. Lee Deok Hwa is excellent in this role. It was a big contrast for me to see him as king here cos the first show I saw him in was A Business Proposal where he was a super humorous grandpa!

Cathy
Cathy
1 year ago

I really enjoyed the characterization of Deok Im in the first episode. I already like this intelligent, quick-witted, and spunky girl. Even at this young age she thinks for herself. I was touched by her interaction with King Yeongjo. In episode two I totally ate up the mistaken identity trope. I especially loved Deok Im chasing Yi San out of the library with a broom and throwing salt at him. I hope the writers keep this going for a while. I had to smile at the very end of episode two with our OTP staring into each other’s eyes while the lanterns floated upwards in the evening sky. I will have to force myself to not keep watching but pace myself to our group watch.

Snow Flower
Snow Flower
1 year ago

Episode 1 impressions:

Lee Deok Hwa is simply brilliant as King Yeongjo.
Court Lady Jo is creepy.
Deok Ro is creepy.
Deok Im is resourceful and quick-thinking.
Yi San carries a burden on his shoulders, being the son of CP Sado.

Royal concubine Yeong died in 1764, so when our OTP meets for the first time San is 12 years old and Deok Im is 11.

Jyoti Bhat
Jyoti Bhat
1 year ago

Wow I am so glad I found this thread I just rewatched the Red sleeve would appreciate to hear different perspectives😊. I felt I understood the show better after my recent watch. Lee Junho is oh so so good 🥰

My
My
1 year ago

This is really worthy of a group watch. I had expected it to be less comedy but I am happily giggling. The salt scene was hilarious as well as the crown prince’s smile when he discovered who it was having to rewrite. Looking forward to the rest of the drama. How do you save people from ferocious tigers by reading aloud? My guess is that she distracts the court ladies so they are gathered and protected in one place, while the guards hunt down the tiger.

My
My
1 year ago
Reply to  kfangurl

The salt is a bit confusing, though. Thought you used it to get protection from ghosts? That makes it even more fun😁

Last edited 1 year ago by My
My
My
1 year ago
Reply to  kfangurl

Haha, even so I can understand the bafflement from the Crown Prince. He probably is not used to being seen as bad luck! Healthy experience for him.

Ele
Ele
1 year ago

Well, I’m a bit embarrassed… I knew I’d started The Red Sleeve and then had stopped because my grandson was unwell. So when I pressed play on Viki, it took me to episode 11!! I had in fact watched quite a chunk. Do I remember it? Erm…

Well, I remembered the smoulder, of course 😊 And that Zombie Girl was the female lead – literally, the best zombie ever, so I was and am excited to see her. And then I remembered the actor playing the King as I’ve seen him in other things and he always looks the same – how old is he?! But he’s very good and likeable, even when playing someone unlikeable.

Anyway, like rewrite-legend I enjoyed the first episode (again) and adore all the tropes! It’s chockful of them, isn’t it?! But, heh, when our girl teetered back from the library ladder, I appreciated the less-than-romantic shove back upright! Maybe it’s because I haven’t watched any kdrama for a while, but I feel all nostalgic watching this – it’s pleasing to know the show’s “rules” just by the first episode. And especially when everything is so pretty.

And perhaps it wasn’t intended to be ha-ha funny that our girl is going to save everyone from a ferocious tiger attack by reading a story, it made me snort! If only everything terrible could be thwarted by reading a story… 😏

Lastly, I read your notes kfangurl with a knowing smile – how tentative you were in your appreciation of Lee Junho when I know how far that appreciation goes by, what episode three?! I’m looking forward to reading your enthusiasm progress!! He is very 🫠

J3ffc
J3ffc
1 year ago
Reply to  kfangurl

OMG, is this THE Junho? Gonna have to start paying attention I guess….😂

Ele
Ele
1 year ago
Reply to  kfangurl

It’s super-endearing, kfangurl, how innocent you were – but how quickly you were taken by his smoulder!! It’s nice to have an accurate historical record of your Junho superfandom 😍😍😍

Anne adores
Anne adores
1 year ago

I agree with you on episode 1. Most felt a bit paint by numbers. Childhood connection, oh hum. Lady Seo is great and the window into the lives of the court ladies too. The end scene is really what makes you excited for ep 2.

Ep 2 was wonderful. Again yes. Cheey Yi San with the appology letter and the mistaken identity is great fun. Again, court lady life is something you see little of in saeguks, so big tick. Loving all the characters. Tiger hunt is very sexy 😍

MMMhway
MMMhway
1 year ago

I had already seen ‘Yi San:Wind of The Palace’ (Lee Seo Jin version) ‌and Yoo Ah In’s version of ‘The Throne’ (Sado).

From the much older historic prequels, I had already watched ‘Dong Yi’ and Yoo Ah In & Kim Tae Hee version of ‘Jeong Ok Jeong’ before I live watched ‘The Red Sleeve’ in 2021.

So I was following the series with the knowledge of what would come in the drama. I just didn’t know how it would be executed.

In my personal opinion, Ep 1 really reflected what was to come for our lead’s relationships

with the story of King Yeongjo (San’s grandpa) & Consort Yeong.

If you have seen ‘The Throne’ movie, Consort Yeong had to inform Crown Prince Sado’s wrongdoings to the King because her duty to the throne.(Though CP Sado was her birth son & that would lead him executed.)
I have always been watching Korean & Chinese historical dramas .For the women living in the Harem, lives were not Rainbow & Unicorn. There were cat fights, jealousies and politics.

Back to consort Yeong, I watched some historical videos after TRS & she was a court lady ,personally chosen as a consort by Yeongjo .

She was also loved by Yeongjo,though her story was not famous like other ladies of Joseon Dynasty.

Last edited 1 year ago by MMMhway
j3ffc
1 year ago

I found the first episode quite engaging – more so than kfangurl. Maybe it’s because I’ve been a while since I’ve watched a real sageuk, but the opening of the show, child actors and all, grabbed me right away. More specifically, I think I got full in during the first story time scene when that one kid swooned over (I wish we could connect that kid with a particular adult court lady). I love the emphasis on story telling, writing, and literacy.

Of course, anytime I come into any K-drama, I have to overcome some initial level of confusion (who? what? when?), but I have a particular problem with “sageuk goggles” – figuring out the basics of the politics, family relationships, and motivations. I have a bit of that here. I don’t understand 100% of what’s going on with this king, and why he did what he did, but that’ll get better with time.

Another confusing thing is that I TOTALLY missed, during the carefully choreographed lake shenanigans scene, was that Doek Im never actually saw Yi San, so I was totally Mr. Confusion (Note to Self: great drama title!) when she didn’t recognize him later.

Gotta go, but before I do, a few minor impressions:

(1) Zombie Girl lives! Really excited to see Lee Se-young in a leading role (first time for me).

(2) I found throwing salt a hoot.

(3) I really like the close-knit group of palace ladies that’s forming (out of hundreds(!) of them).

(4) I really identified with our heroine having to revise, revise, and revise that short letter. Happens to me all the time….

Looking forward to the watch!

Last edited 1 year ago by j3ffc
Trent
Trent
1 year ago
Reply to  j3ffc

j3ffc — 1) Lee Se-young is aces in this show, just really top-notch, so you’re in for a treat. 2) that whole salt throwing scene really was hilarious. 3) the theme of sisterhood and the lives that the palace maids make for themselves in parallel to their complete devotion to the Crown is a consistent through-line in the show. 4) the first time I saw that scene, I was all, man, he’s being such a jerk! But also, it was pretty funny.

Usually I say you don’t necessarily have to really read up on the historical background of any given sageuk, and that is, strictly speaking, true of this one as well, but… the background here is kinda famous (vis-a-vis Korean history, at least), as the whole “Prince Sadoc” episode (subject of the 2015 film The Throne, not to mention various other dramatizations). Prince Sadoc is our ML Yi San’s father (deceased by the time of our show), and his grandfather is the reigning king (magnificently played by Lee Deok-hwa here) who ordered his son’s death. This history is alluded to, both directly and indirectly, in the show, so I think knowing at least the bare outlines can be helpful deciphering some of the undercurrents.

(I don’t think it’s a spoiler to mention this background, since it isn’t directly depicted in the show?)

J3ffc
J3ffc
1 year ago
Reply to  Trent

@Trent (and also @MMMhway above), thanks very much. Not spoilery at all and very helpful. And kfangurl, I’m glad to know that it’s not entirely me and that some of this is only alluded to in the show. I was pretty much ready to attribute it all to one of my numerous micronaps.

ABV
ABV
1 year ago

– I know I promised that I would join this group watch from the beginning, but I won’t be able to do so until week number three due to reasons that I’ve alluded to on Patreon. My apologies.

ABV
ABV
1 year ago
Reply to  kfangurl

and – Thank you. I will join in at the earliest possible opportunity.

j3ffc
1 year ago
Reply to  ABV

We’ll be thinking of you, ABV, and ready when you come back. Do take care.

Ele
Ele
1 year ago
Reply to  ABV

Hello @ABV I haven’t been over to Patreon for a while, but hope you’re OK and that you can join in the group watch at some point. xx

ABV
ABV
1 year ago
Reply to  Ele

@Ele – Hello. I am doing better, and things should return to some form of normalcy after next week. I hope to join the week after next if all goes well.