Welcome to the Open Thread, everyone! Thank you for joining me on this watch of sparkling modern retro classic, Queen In-hyun’s Man! 😍
SOME IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENTS, before we begin:
ZERO SPOILER POLICY
1. We will be adopting a ZERO SPOILER POLICY for this Open Thread, except for events that have happened in the show, up to this point.
The spoiler tags don’t work in email notifications, therefore, please take note that WE WILL NOT BE USING SPOILER TAGS FOR THIS OPEN THREAD.
ANY AND ALL SPOILERS WILL BE REDACTED to protect first-time viewers in our midst (although, I’d appreciate it if you would save me the trouble of having to redact spoilers, heh 😅).
This includes, but is not limited to, how characters &/or relationships develop, later in the show.
We need to protect the innocent! 😉
2. HOWEVER!! If you’d like to discuss spoilers from a rewatcher’s point of view, I’ve created a SPOILER ZONE for you, where you can discuss all the spoilers you’d like, without the need for spoiler warnings. You can find it here!
Without further ado, here are my reactions to this set of episodes; have fun in the Open Thread, everyone! ❤️
It’s literally been a full decade since I first watched this show, so this is pretty much as fresh as it gets, in terms of having a rewatch feel like a first watch.
One of the main things that strikes me, during my watch of this first episode, is just how quickly things move along. Gosh, Show gets a whole lot of set-up done, in just 45 minutes.
That’s a far cry from some of the movie-length episodes we see these days, and honestly, it doesn’t feel like Show suffered from having less screen time.
In fact, thanks to the tighter editing and the condensed screen time, it feels like I’m on a bit of a rollercoaster. I just.. don’t have time to get bored, with this one.
Immediately, with Show’s opening scenes, we get a good sense of the whimsical sort of vibe that will dominate much of our story.
I think this is super helpful, because we spend a good chunk of our initial minutes, on the Joseon backstory, which is far from whimsical, and might therefore turn away unsuspecting viewers who aren’t in the mood for palace intrigue.
I like that without having to know too much background story, we get a good general idea of the situation in our Joseon timeline, and where our male lead Kim Boong Do, is situated in all of this.
So far, we know that he’s loyal to Queen In-hyun, has fast reflexes, fights well, and is pretty shrewd as well, given that he’s smart enough to figure out what’s going on in the palace, and has a plan in place, to protect Queen In-hyun, and take down the people who are plotting her death.
That’s.. pretty much all we need to know about Kim Boong Do, for a start, and it’s impressive, that Show accomplishes all this, in a matter of minutes.
On Hee Jin’s side of things, I am immediately charmed by her.
This has a lot to do with Yoo In Na’s personal charm, certainly, but my goodness, isn’t she as cute as a button?? 😍😍 She’s adorable in a way that only people who are naturally charming can be adorable, and I am very quickly smitten, and in her corner.
One of the things that makes Hee Jin so endearing in my eyes, is the fact that she’s so scrappy.
What I mean is, in Dramaland at least, lots of beautiful women just aren’t the scrappy sort. When we have a scrappy female character, most dramas would have you believe that she’s not beautiful (even if she really is), because it just.. seems to come with the territory.
In this case, however, Hee Jin is clearly beautiful – but that doesn’t prevent her from being hardworking, determined, and willing to put up with less than ideal situations, while in pursuit of her acting dreams.
There’s the way she quickly improvises by borrowing a pair of heels from a random stranger (who turns out to be a fan), when her own heels break. And there’s the way she’s willing to change in a makeshift changing room, even though there’s a risk of being discovered / exposed.
Plus, there’s the way she states it so plainly to Han Dong Min – that he’s a big Hallyu star, but she’s not, and therefore has to keep trying out at auditions – is so matter-of-fact, and almost defiant, which I kinda love.
It makes me feel like she won’t allow her less than ideal starting point, to get her down; she’s going to do what it takes, and I kind of love her for it, already. 😍
Last but not least, there’s how she’s not above kneeling over drain cover, to answer her phone that’s dropped through the grating to the drain below. The way she huddles over that drain cover, and yells her gratitude to the PD, for casting her, is so down-to-earth and endearing.
As for Han Dong Min.. I remember hating him a lot more on my first watch, but so far, I have to say that I find him more annoying than hateful.
What I mean is, it’s definitely not nice of him to tease Hee Jin the way he does, when he comes upon her in a compromising situation like that. But I realize that he doesn’t actually have any intention of exposing her to his co-workers, like he threatens.
He’d been teasing her for fun, and while it’s still not a cool thing to do, I feel like he might have been teasing her like that, because Hee Jin’s just really cute. Y’know, like how boys like to tease the girls they like, at the playground? Kinda-sorta like that.
Again, to be clear, this is not cool. But it’s not malicious, I just wanted to mention that.
It’s not clear whether Han Dong Min has anything to do with Hee Jin being successfully cast as Queen In-hyun, but I’d like to think that Hee Jin earned that opportunity on her own. Let’s see if that turns out to be true.
So far, it’s not clear how Boong Do travels to the present, but from the way the fighting scene plays out, it seems that it has something to do with the talisman which his gisaeng friend had given him.
It makes lots of sense, actually, that Boong Do ends up in the exact same room in the exact same palace, in 2012 – which is now being used as a filming set. I would much rather this, than have him appear in some random location elsewhere.
And, it makes perfect sense that this would be where he runs into Hee Jin, because she’s just been cast as Queen In-hyun.
Ahhh. I love how organically this fits together, right away.
The first meeting between Boong Do and Hee Jin is low-key amusing, as Boong Do asks her if he’s dead, or dreaming.
What I do really like, is the fact that Boong Do appears to be so observant of his surroundings. He watches and absorbs everything that he sees before him, before formulating his question to Hee Jin.
And how genial of Hee Jin, to not only offer him snacks, but cheerfully tell him that he’s probably just been drinking too much.
Cute! Very cute.
What an efficient first episode this turned out to be. Not only do I feel like I’ve got a solid grasp of our two timelines and our two leads and what they’re about, I’m also genuinely curious to see what happens next, and soon. Very nicely done.
We get more set-up this episode, which means that by the time we reach the end of this episode, it feels like we’re all geared up and ready to roll, to wherever Show takes us next.
I hope that’s correct, because I would like to see Boong Do and Hee Jin sharing the screen more. Show’s just way more fun, when they’re together. And so far, in these first two episodes, they’ve spent more time apart, in their individual timelines, than together, in 2012.
Hopefully, that gets adjusted, going forward. *rubs hands*
For now, we’re given more context about Boong Do’s background, and I’m rather taken aback to learn that he’s lost his entire family, due to political machinations. The scenes of his family members being killed in various ways, was sad to watch.
Ack. I can only imagine what a nightmare that must have been, for Boong Do to live through that.
Another interesting nugget of information we get, is that Boong Do is a widower.
Show isn’t super clear on whether his wife had been killed by his enemies, or if she’d died of an illness, but the fact remains that Boong Do’s lost his family in every way that one can lose a family, it seems.
These reveals have my heart going out to Boong Do in a big way already.
Not to mention that on top of all this, is the fact that his enemies are now actively after his life, because of his involvement with Queen In-hyun’s affairs.
Gosh, can’t a guy catch a break around these parts?? 😭 I’ve just met Boong Do, and I already feel so sorry for him.
I do like that Boong Do proves himself to be a quick thinker. We’d already had an inkling of that, in episode 1, but we see more of that in play, this episode, like when he talks his way out of the palace, even though there is an order in force, that no one is allowed to leave.
Gotta love a male lead who’s good with his brain AND his fists. 🤩
Over on Hee Jin’s side of things, I continue to enjoy her a great deal.
One of the things that I find myself liking the most about her, this episode, is how she is so principled.
For example, she doesn’t want anything to do with Dong Min, in principle, because of how he’s behaved in the past, not only towards her, but also, in being a serial flirt, with the ladies.
So when he comes to her home and basically tells her that he’d like them to date again, she reacts like he’s a crazy jerk, and isn’t moved at all, by his attempts to talk her around.
Plus, she continues to insist that she passed the audition and won the role fair and square, and was selected by the PD himself, and that it has nothing to do with Dong Min. I love her bluster around this, and I love that she won’t just take Dong Min’s words at face value.
I’m completely charmed by her, and so I guess I kind of get why Dong Min’s completely charmed by her too?
I mean, his approach is childish and petty, using tricks and bluffs and all, which is not great, but I understand why he’s so beside himself with hearts in his eyes for Hee Jin. His technique is sorely lacking, but right now, I can’t fault his taste. 😅
It’s so great, though, that Hee Jin is so disgusted by Dong Min and the surprise attack kiss that he launches on her, that she brushes her teeth like there’s no tomorrow. 😂
I also really like how Hee Jin genuinely wants to be pleasant, and just get along with others. Like when her snooty co-star, who plays Lady Jang, uses unreasonable airs around Hee Jin, Hee Jin doesn’t fight back, and tries to smooth things over by being agreeable.
The stress does prove a bit too much for Hee Jin, though, particularly with Dong Min claiming that he did actually help her land the role, and that’s how we have her running off to get some fresh air, just before the press conference.
..Which is when Boong Do comes crashing through thin air, with not only his horse, but an attacker on his tail.
What a shock it must be for Hee Jin. I completely understand her reflexive instinct to screeeam, loud and long. 🙊😅
Plus, how very shocking, that Boong Do overcomes his attacker by killing him, right in front of Hee Jin – and the attacker’s blood even gets on her clothes. Eep.
Even more shocking, is how the attacker’s body then dissolves into thin air, right before their eyes. Yikes.
It’s no wonder Hee Jin collapses into a dead faint; it’s just too much, all of it.
How nifty, though, that Boong Do’s got those quick reflexes, which have him catching Hee Jin, and cradling her head, before it hits the ground. It’s way too soon to squee, but I kinda want to, anyway. 😅
I can’t wait to see what unfolds next, particularly if Boong Do sticks around in 2012 longer this time, compared to his last visit. 😁
I am late to the party, but I am catching up. I also find the short fast-paced episodes rather refreshing.
Wow, just coming to the party late to see >100 comments already (serves me right for showing up to “work” this week). All the good comments have been made already, but one things that I’m finding interesting is seeing Yoo In-na getting to play the sympathetic lead for once as opposed to a minor character or semi-villain as in Secret Garden or My Love From the Star.
Guys, which platform are you watching it on? I can’t seem to find a decent one – I mean decent quality video.
Hey Natalia, I find iQIYI is pretty good in terms of video quality!
I am also watching on iQIYI, where using the downloaded videos has helped a lot (https://thefangirlverdict.com/2022/03/28/review-nordvpn-for-my-drama-needs/). You can get up to a very reasonable 720 p video for free.
i watch it on youtube.
Youtube works for me too! Thanks Eda, thanks guys!
Youtube. It’s on Cereal Channel. Just type the title in Youtube search bar. ALL complete episodes are there and the quality is great.
Ah, just caught up on watching the two episodes and reading your thoughts, kfangurl. As a first timer, I am immediately smitten with Yoo In-na’s Hee-jin. Gosh, she is so beautiful and likeable. I thought when she dropped the phone, uh-oh, game over – but lo, no, she’s yelling into the drain and getting that part 😂
As for Bung-do, I’m liking his rather calculating demeanour. I mean, if I time-travelled 300 years into the future, I would freak out. He’s so cool – even noticing our girl is wearing jewellery and eye-liner and therefore, unlikely to be a fairy 😅
Ugh, the villains are always annoying and Dong-min really did stretch into creepy predator for me. I get what you’re saying, that he didn’t expose Hee-jin half-dressed. However, he was getting a good eye-full which felt unforgivable, whether they’d dated before or not. And then to kiss her! Yuck. I am not amused.
Witchy Lady Jang… Nuff said…
And, sorry, but manager lady is unintentionally irritating me. I don’t think I take to these comic characters so much. She is pretty OTT.
Ah, but geisha Yoon-wol is rather lovely. She actually looks like she’s playing the instrument too – quite a revelation! Anyone know if she is?
Anyway, most enjoyable so far. I love a time-travel story! xx
Slightly going on a tangent here, but I remember that Faith/The Great Doctor was the first to feature (on its earliest trailers back in 2009) the concept of time-travel in kdramas. But the project kept getting delayed that by the time it finally aired in the latter half of 2012, viewers already watched Rooftop Prince and Queen In-Hyun’s Man successively. And both were more fun and lighthearted (I really love Faith btw, even with all its production issues).
@Jiyuu – saw both of these and loved them equally. And speaking of Faith – Kim Hee Sun is starring in Tomorrow and I asked myself “Does this woman age?” Honest to goodness, I am watching it only to look at her. She is as beautiful as when she starred in Faith.
Haven’t seen Tomorrow yet but I’ve watched Angry Mom and Alice, also started Lady in Dignity for her. Her energy is very playful and cheerful, I think that’s her secret to looking so youthful (on top of her good genes and skin regiment).
Why did right state minister – not sure that’s who he is but…Villainy Guy – why did he tell the king to stop twisting Boong Do’s legs and let him go? I know Villainy Guy felt Boong Do is no threat because he’s just a scholar, but I didn’t understand his logic. Why interfere at all? If Boong Do were killed then he wouldn’t have to worry about Boong Do hiring someone to take revenge for his family or anything else Boong Do might conceive. I know Villainy Guy explained his logic but I was too sleepy to understand it. Help, anybody?
The reason was that the king liked Boong Do and by asking the king to be merciful Villainy Guy was trying to get under his skin.
@Alexandra – under Boong Do’s skin? Why? He’d be dead and out of his hair. I still don’t get it.
No, under the king’s skin. Villainy Guy wanted to be in the King’s favour so, because the king liked Boong Do, Villainy Guy asked the king to spare him.
Don’t you remember in other dramas: the king likes some nobelman, but that nobelman had done something and the king must punish him, but he actually doesn’t want to? So someone from the other nomelmen pleades with the king to be merciful, knowing that the king wants to hear just that.
@beez, like in all politics there are two opposing parties, one for the deposed queen, the other against. boong do is close to the king and big supporter of the ex-queen. the opposing’s party’s minister makes a political calculation, that if they get rid of boong do, the emperor might regret it later and it might backfire on that minister and in general on the ones that harmed/killed boong do. he’d rather let him live and make him grateful for allowing him to stay alive, hoping that he’l slowly join their party and be on their side. that is his idea.
@eda – Still makes no sense to me. No way you kill a person’s family and expect them to eventually join you’re side. Still wondering…
beez, Still makes no sense to me
are you looking for sense in politics? and in a korean drama? and in THAT period? seriously? wait for the developments.
Still makes no sense to me
another explanation. you know how the koreans always talk about repaying a favor. may be this minister thought that granting somebody a life requires the greatest repayment. so that is why he thought that boong do would join them (to repay his debt). everybody is allowed to dream, no?
forgot to mention – you can see this explanation when the queen (who wants boong do dead) asks the minister why he let boong do live, the minister gives her this explanation (see above).
@KFG – I had wondered who the pregnant woman was that they showed dying with the rest of Boong Do’s family. Then they mentioned his wife and now I’m thinking he lost not only his wife, but his small family, if that was really his wife. (Of course, his grandparents and parents and aunts & uncle’s & siblings are gud family too, but you know what I mean.) I’m guessing at the relationships using the ages of all the people we were shown killed.
As I understood the pregnant woman was his wife and she was also killed along with his father and mother.
As I started my rewatch (which is something I rarely do with dramas and other shows), a number of thoughts sprung to mind. The first is how much of this delightful show is coming back to me. Secondly, like kfangurl, I was struck by how effective the traditional 45 min episode length is. Thirdly, it is a drama that is part of the cusp of change in kdrama production values. By that I mean, if you watch a drama from 2011 (and earlier), QIHM in 2012 represents quite a marked change from the look and feel of earlier dramas.
In terms of our OTP, like phl, Yoo In Na is my favourite kdrama actress. I think like some other actresses in recent years, she is trying to change things up regarding her acting and that is to be admired. I do need to rewatch Touch Your Heart – nobody could have played Yoon Seo any better. As for JHW, I watched him most recently in Young Lady and Gentleman, that was so awesome during the first part, but became a kdrama mess. Of course, that’s only my opinion as show became the fourth most watched show by SK.
As for the bad guys, you know you are always in for the ride of your life regarding two of my favourite veteran supporting actors. As for Yoon Wol, her character has so much going for it and clearly has a substantial amount of affection for her former lord.
When Boong Do is being tortured using “leg twisting,” my mind did go to how we often see this used in historical dramas. In reality, it was for the most serious of alleged crimes, but in fact, was used sparingly as it had a high possibility of leaving a person unable to walk properly ever again. Despite what we see in kdramas re torture and the like, it was as much a sin by the user to harm the human body as it was for the recipient to commit a crime. It was a very complex issue in terms of using such punishments that was finally resolved by our Kings from The Red Sleeve ie they were not to be used.
I did watch the Chinese remake way back when – unfortunately it was awful. It was very recognisable, but was so corny and didn’t translate well at all. Now on to episodes 3 and 4, at the appropriate time of course!
@Seank – thanks for the historical input. But can you tell me exactly how the legs get”twisted”? From what I can see, they’re pushed apart. (Not saying that wouldn’t hurt, but I don’t see twisting.) Did they just call it “twist”?
@Beez, what we see in the dramas is not quite how it was done. Juri is also referred to as leg bending. The victim’s legs were tied together at the knees and ankles. The clubs were then inserted and the legs twisted. It became an issue for Joseon society as Juri went from a device used for treasonous matters to those involving theft, and so became more common until Yeongjo said enough was enough and he banned this and branding at the same time.
Thanks so much, Sean! I can’t tell you how often I’ve watched this in saeguk with the victim seemingly in excruciating pain as their knees are splayed wide open and I’m thinking “Dude! You need to stretch more!”
Yes, they should at least do some warm up exercises beforehand…
@Beez and @Sean – I never liked to see the leg twisting happen, but I dislike that hot iron being pulled out of the fire in the jail even more. Shudder!
I close my eyes when I see these scenes in sageuks. And recently I came across the death sentence where you’re tied to four horses (one for each of the arms and legs) and they make the horses run in opposite directions, so the person is literally quartered. It was in
Yes, and how about Lingchi? Jiyuu, I distinctly remember that scene from Scarlet Heart and it was gruesome. I felt sick to my stomach and had to cover my eyes during that scene. Ugh….shudder!
@jiyuu @phl1rxd – I enjoy too much violent tv and movies because I’ve seen all those methods in western shows too (except the “steaming like dumplings” HOLD UP! Y’ALL WAIT FOR ME TO STOP LAUGHING! 😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@Beez – The funny thing is I can watch (with my hand over my eyes during the scary parts) a detective drama with gruesome murders in it. I have deduced that I can do this because I know the good guy is after the bad guy. I am not good with torture/punishment scenes at all.
@phl1rxd – I think that if it’s a character I’ve been wanting to skin alive, I could
enjoy(kind of sort of) watching a torture scene. But as I’m thinking about this now, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a baddie getting their just desserts. I’ve seen plenty of heros suffering, but never a scene showing the bad guy being tortured.🤔
@Beez – Hmm that is an interesting thought. I will now need to rack my brains to see if I can remember one…
phl, and also sean, you seem to know some or more of the chinese language, right?
finally got the internet back (no idea if it will stay), but i was able to catch up on one of my latest dramas – candle in the tomb. did anybody watch it? (i think it’s a very good drama, it feels like a good, smart, well written action book, do not why it feels to me like a book. i do like books of course.
also, i saw jin dong in quite a few dramas, the best – nirvana and disguiser, but this one seems to be the most solid and impressive in terms of acting.)
anyway, i have a question about this drama, the old guide in the desert, what language is he speaking- it sounds to me not mandarin. am i right? btw, the actor wang yong quan, actually redeemed himself in this drama. after his role in nirvana, i can’t stand him and can’t help it. and i know it is directly related of how much i hated his character, and seeing him in other productions, i can’t shake it of. but here, he is just so good, i mean acting, that i am on the way to forgive him.
anyway, i would appreciate if somebody would answer my question. thanks in advance.
@Eda – I have not seen this. I did look it up and I see it is a Daylight Entertainment production so I would assume that one, it will be a decent production and two, you will see NIF faces. I do see quite a lot of NIFers (Our own Tong Lu from NIF is the casting director in this as well), even NIF1’s director did a scene.
Check out this link for back info on this story based on a a series written by Zhang Muye – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Blows_Out_the_Light
I agree that Wang Yong Quan is such a good actor! I have seen him play a father in a few dramas. His interpretation of Xia Jiang was, in my opinion, his supreme role. He will always be Xia Jiang in my head even though I had seen him play other roles. Such a testimony to his skills! Such talent!
thanks phl. but that’s precisely why i chose this drama – it seems like this director always choses the best of the best (actors) and mostly works with the same production crew. anything i have seen so far from them is excellent or very good. and this one is no exception. it’s a drama that you will not have a split of a moment that is boring. really. and of course the whole production, including the sites themselves, cinematography, and in general the issue of the chinese stories of tomb raiding (and i have seen a few of those) this one is a bit different, it has some elements that are taken from real life and valuable from cultural/historical points of view. and your favorite actor is so different in this also, different from all other roles he has taken on, and he is simply the most authentic in his portrayal of this character.
but… i am bugged by this question, of what language is he speaking. may be sean or sweetroad or anybody else would know. i tried to google it, but did not find an answer.
@eda — it would probably be really helpful if you could pinpoint what episode and timestamp you’re referring to, so it’s easy to get to to check it out? Also, what platform are you watching this on? I don’t find it on Viki, Netflix, or iQIYI (all U.S. based).
thanks trent. it’s youtube. and the episodes with the desert starts somewhere mid or towards end of ep. 8. but you can look it up ep. 9, and he’s most of the desert scenes after that with the archeological group. his name is anliman, and it sounds to me NOT mandarin, but not sure what it is.
@eda — thanks.
So at first I thought the dude was likely to be Uyghur, speaking Uyghur, both because it’s out in the desert (presumably somewhere out in Xinjiang province, which is China’s westernmost province, and where the Uyghurs live), and also because on their way to see the old guy, someone references Uyghurs.
But then they ask the cop, and he says, no, he’s not Uyghur, he’s Han Chinese (and the actor playing him is Han), which is obviously true once you see him (it’s fairly easy to tell the difference between Han and Uyghur facial features, in general).
Anyway, I listened to the first third or so of the 9th episode, and the old guy is actually speaking Mandarin… it’s just that he’s speaking (or whoever is dubbing his lines; all the actors seem to be dubbed) in a very heavy accent, which not only pronounces the syllables a little bit off, but also gets the wrong tones fairly often. But for all that, he’s mostly understandable as speaking Mandarin. I’m not familiar enough to venture a guess as to what accent he’s speaking with, though, just that it’s there.
Also, I just checked out the Jingjue Kingdom that they reference, and it’s apparently the Han dynasty name related to present-day ruins of an oasis out in the desert that is indeed located in Xinjiang province.
thanks a bunch, that totally clarifies. his speech sounded to me kind of different than the mandarin that i got used to listen to. of course, i do not know a word (well, i picked up a few just from the dramas), in chinese.
at first i also thought that he was speaking uyghur, (but then how did all the others understand him?) especially that he’s praying like a muslim (that happens multiple times) and even sounded may be arabic (again, not sure, but his mumbling sounded not mandarin again). and of course i also heard that the policeman said that he’s han. but then it confused me even more, since hans are not muslim.
anyway, your whole explanation is extremely interesting and valuable to me, thanks again.
do you speak mandarin?
Trent – you are The Man! Thanks. I knew you could handle this question.
trent, a question, if you know the answer.
all the actors seem to be dubbed
i have read about this phenomena in chinese dramas. but interestingly enough, jin dong sounds the same to me in all other dramas i saw with him. so it sounds to me that it is indeed HIS voice. what does that mean? is he dubbing himself? why, what for? also, for example, i saw quite a lot of chen kun’s work, and at this point i recognize his voice even without looking at the screen. does that mean his voice is not dubbed?
@eda — I’m afraid that I’m just the wrong person to ask. I do speak Mandarin, but I know basically nothing about the voice-dubbing practices of the C-drama industry. Sean or phl1rxd are both likely to know a lot more than I do on that topic…
Trent – Trent – This is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_Bk7pd9DOA&list=PLvf4fZgfbz57dpsjVKdu7u13kyv7sAFQq&index=9. I would be curious to know as well.
@Eda – I just checked this out online and OMG Jin Dong is (exceptionally) his handsome Capricorn self! 😍 His hair! This is beautiful to look at – the scenery, the horses! and Jin Dong.
so he’s a capricorn? me too. i always like fellow capricorns.
the sceneries, i do not know what you saw, but there are a few very different ones, from icy cold and glaciers to vastness of the deserts – the landscapes are spectacular.
and jin dong – o ya! always.
you will probably like this drama.
@Eda – yes he is. I always check the star’s signs, especially if I find they interesting. Jin Dong projects the classic Cap quality of responsibility which is very attractive. 🐐
I whizzed through E1 through 9 and yes, these poor actors must have gotten a cold going from freezing to sweating. 😄
phl, i am going to bug you again, forgive me. rumors have it that you might know – the issue of dubbing in chinese dramas. and i have read about it, but like every time i hear jin dong, he sounds to me the same, so i assume it’s his own voice. the same with chen kun, i saw quite a few of his productions and i definitely recognize his voice. i also heard him singing or giving interviews. so, am i mistaken, or are they dubbing their own voices. then why? what’s the use? do you know?
@Eda – In order to get the answer to your question just watch this video – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcRYGmzcWv8 – on voice dubbing. It is very enlightening.
To find out if there voices are dubbed or not I usually go to see if the drama is listed in wiki.d-addicts.com and, if so, they will list the voice dubbers. Not all dramas are listed here though. However, if they list a dubber you can follow that link to see all the characters they dubbed. It is interesting.
thanks, phl. so it’s all about censorship. but how stupid is this, if chinese can read the actual dialogues looking at the lips. one of the reasons i do not like to watch chinese or korean films when they are dubbed in english, is because it looks to me weird that their lips are not corresponding to the words spoken. to me it is really annoying. and i can’t imagine that it is not annoying to chinese speaking people.
but what i still do not know, whether the actor himself is doing the dubbing, or it is different people entirely. do you know? like in the drama be my princess, both ml and fl are doing the dubbing to their own stuff.
@Eda – I cannot find out whether or not Jin Dong has been dubbed in this drama. Sometimes (as in NIF1) a few of the actors dub themselves and the rest of the characters are dubbed.
phl, you mean dubbed by other people, not the actual actors? but do they try to imitate the original voice of the actor/actress? do you have an idea?
@Eda – Yes, dubbed by other actors. Professional dubbers use their own voice (not sure if they alter it to fit a particular actor or their role but I believe they do). Not sure if they try to imitate the actor’s voice, but they do their best to add emotion and feeling to the lines to match the mood of the scene. These folks are real pros. They have to be able to speak clear, standard Mandarin.
Usually the BTS (behind the scenes) videos for dramas will feature the actors’ real voices. See if you can find any BTS videos for this.
@Eda, I note that Hu Ge started out as a voice dubber re The Book and the Sword back when he was studying.
From what I know, there are a number of reasons, apart from what has been explored here already re why dubbing occurs:
Standardisation, as phl mentions – so it takes care of local dialects and the use of slang by actors.
The actor might be a good actor, but they consider the actor’s voice not up to their looks (I know, but it must be a big issue, because looks are addressed all the time in Cdramas).
It’s a means to deal with overriding external noise while filming. So, either the actor or another actor will dub the scenes in post production.
Some actore make many little mistakes when delivering lines – so instead of reshooting scenes, dubbing is used as it saves time and money.
Wallace Chung is one actor where they use the same voice dubber who can mimic his mannerisms etc. Apparently, although Wallace can speak Mandarin, he has a very thick Cantonese accent, which viewers have said they find difficult to follow.
The studios are now trying to use voice actors less, but while the fans keep complaining about actors withhigh pitched whiny voices, it is going to take some time for a complete change. Jeremy is a case in point. Once everyone became aware of his amazing voice, fans have not been too happy re recent bubbing projects ala Be My Princess 😊
sean, that was quite a comprehensive explanation, thanks!
but sometimes it seems they are “cutting their nose in spite of their face” -is that’s how the saying goes?, like in the case with jeremy, as you point out.
btw, i am not aware of any dubbing in western productions, (or korean, for that matter, ) and they seem to be doing quite well, without going to this extreme (i consider it extreme) or am i simply ignorant on that issue? please enlighten me, if you can.
and thanks again. i really appreciate you taking the time to explain. hope i am not abusing your kindness.
@Eda – yes, in a nutshell dubbing (looping) does happen on an extensive basis re western shows. Funnily enough, it happens for similar reasons re Chinese dramas. The first type of dubbing includes actors dubbing themselves using either their language or another language. For example the Danish show The Rain had actors that were also English speakers. So, once they had finished filming this series, Netflix had the same actors dub themselves in English for its release on the international market.
With children’s programming (animation in particular), English productions are often dubbed by the same actors or other actors to suit the American market re certain words used. An example is when Ringo dubbed himself in preparation for Thomas The Tank Engine entering the US market.
Often Spanish, French, Italian and Portuguese dramas are dubbed by the same actors or voice actors to suit how people speak these languages in other countries e.g. Latin America or Canada’s Quebec.
Here is a bit of trivia for you. I remember watching a very interesting documentary on Laurel and Hardy many years ago. Apart from these two actors having a great friendship, they were extremely intelligent and hard working. Instead of having their movies dubbed into other languages, they would redo every scene in a different language. Everyone involved found this amazing as L&H could nail the necessary inflections – sometimes this was undertaken for 100 different languages.
I appreciate the fact you asked me such a question and as I had some knowledge in this area, I was more than happy to pass on some of what I know 😊
thanks again, i was totally unaware of the complete picture. and since i am an overly curious person in almost everything (that excludes anything electronic), kind of the type “curiosity killed the cat”, i appreciate any information that i did not have before.
@Eda – it’s a very good attribute to have being curious 😊
sean, curiosity is indeed good, but can also be destructive. it all depends…but i can not negate my nature, even when it hurts…
@EDa – I just read Sean’s post and my wikipedia link is wrong – aha! He is correct in the writer of the series. I do wonder what wikipedia was thinking…
@Eda – I watched Candle in the Tomb when it first aired. There is going to be 12 seasons in all, based on the books by Tian Xia Ba. The novels are extremely popular and very highly rated. I haven’t watched the other four seasons made so far.
I remember when I stumbled onto this: two of my faves in the one drama re Jin Dong and Joe Chen and of course the actor who plays the professor is one of my favourite supporting actors.
All in all, I thought it was a wonderful drama, tickled my fancy re the archaeological side of things and I couldn’t believe how they pulled such a show like this together at the time.
Trent’s summation re the old guy and the desert language question made perfect sense to me. My thoughts around the whole Uyghur/Han issue, is that this is a very politically sensitive matter in an area that is significant re the ancient silk trade routes. So, for a show to depict such an important archaeological site(s) in the Taklimakan (Sea of Death) desert re the ancient city Jingjue (Pompeii of the East) against such a backdrop in a region equally inhabited by Uyghurs is interesting. It had to be done in a way that the censors would have allowed.
If you are interested, here is a link to a blog that contains very entertaining episode recaps of show at the time: https://nextepisodepls.wordpress.com/2017/02/05/candle-in-the-tomb-%E9%AC%BC%E5%90%B9%E7%81%AF%E4%B9%8B%E7%B2%BE%E7%BB%9D%E5%8F%A4%E5%9F%8E-series-review/
Sean – great info!
sean, thanks for the contribution to this quite interesting discussion on it’s own. ya, the archeological side in this drama is also what is attractive to me, but also the whole issue of uyghur/han. and of course all the ancient sites, and the scenery – quite amazing. i have seen a few dramas on this topic (tomb raiding), but found this one special and different.
but bottom line, i chose it because of the director and actors. the other seasons are not done by the same people, (from what i have seen) so i do not think i will rush to watch it. may be some time in the future… tell me, if you are going to watch any of them and what you think of them. i just can’t imagine anybody else except jin dong as the ML. it will be blasphemy (for me anyway).
Yes, I agree re your comments on the subsequent seasons. For me, Jin Dong would have to at least been involved somewhere along the way.
They did do a good job presenting the various sites, so this show was also about presenting a positive, but entertaining, message on how important these locations are.
you know, i found it interesting that at the very end of the 21st. ep., the last one,
@Eda – yes, very noticeable and it would have kept the censors happy!
I think I have to be circumspect about speaking on Uyghur/Han issues, lest I end up clogging our host’s comment threads with inflammatory content.
Somewhat related, stimulated by a discussion I saw recently (here, or on Patreon? probably Patreon…) about You Are My Glory, I find myself intensely curious whenever Dilraba comes up with how she manages to navigate being a top A-list star in China as a Uyghur.
@Trent, Dilraba’s high levels of integrity seem to be the key factor. She is very professional, inclusive and speaks five languages.
too bad, because i would really like to hear your take on the uyghur/han issues. but i do understand your reasons.
never a scene showing the bad guy being tortured.
how about these bad guys from nirvana, remember?
xia jiang (the head of that “secret service” at that time, kind of KGB from russia) – he was real evil, but he got well deserved punishment (not pretty). also marquess xie yu, another black soul, evil guy – he also got his share of punishment and by the end killed. these are just the ones that came to mind right how.
and it’s so strange, once an actor plays somebody that evil, the evilness is kind of stuck in my mind, and then i see those actors in different roles, but can not warm up to them.
i don’t recall them being “tortured” though?
not like the koreans. i guess the chinese are kinder (may be a bit). or may be they are just not showing it. but you are right, they do not show these gruesome tortures. although plenty miserable in prison setting. but nothing like hot iron, or breaking the legs… or may be i have not seen those. i’ll have to think more.
beez, check your email.
thank you for the warning. i don’t think i have an appetite to see that.
whereas, if I hadn’t already seen those shows, I’d be saying “sign me up!” lol
@Beez – you definitely have a stronger stomach than I do. I remember feeling really nauseated at that scene in Scarlet Heart. I sometimes have to walk away from the TV at home when my daughter is watching a violent western show. I am very squeamish.
If L is watching a show with some gruesome parts, I do suggest she looks away at the pertinent moments. Mind you, this isn’t always successful.
The only thing I can’t look at is swarms of bugs. Or even one bug but large numbers of them on the screen is a no-no. And nobody better touch me while my eyes are closed to avoid looking at the bugs. Swarms of bees are okay though.
Speaking of gruesome, I watched Jang Hyuk’s 2021 movie – Tomb of the River. His character is an animal. And I do not mean that in my usual drooling way. The movie may as well be called The Bloody Stabby River.
@Beez – Lol. Some of my favourite bug infested movies: Starship Troopers, The Mummy, Joe’s Apartment, Mimic, Arachnophobia.
I tracked down the preview for Tomb of the River and also found a number of reviews which focused more on the two stars reuniting for a film project after 5 years rather than the movie itself. I don’t mind a bit of gruesome stabby stuff, but didn’t see anything there to convince me to take a look 👀😎👀
@beez and @seankfletcher I love Jang Hyuk (and the rest of the cast) but couldn’t muster up enough reasons to watch more than 15mins of Tomb of the River.
As for bugs, I remember one episode of MacGyver where they were at a water tank and swarms
of ants were crawling to them. That was ages ago, it looked scary in my memories.
Yes, I remember that MacGyver episode too, Jiyuu 🤔
Nothing worse that Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. The tunnel scene.
@Beez – it’s a classic scene 🕸🕷🪳🐛🪲
@Sean – keep your critters and cooties to yourself! (Even if they’re just emoticons.) yuk!
@beez – Cooties! Now I have not heard that since grade school. The boys used that word to describe girls – “She’s got cooties.”
@Beez, @phl1rxd – yes, that is a blast from the past!
@Beez – one more time: 🕸🕷🪳🐛🪲😂🤣😂
I can let the cooties slide, but I can’t figure out – Sean, what is it you have against Chuno!? Or is I t Jang Hyuk that’s the problem?
@Beez – I don’t have anything against either. I think Jang Hyuk is excellent. Chuno was just okay for me as a drama. I was expecting it to be better than it was. So, I am only stirring, Beez. 😊
Chuno was just okay for me as a drama. I was expecting it to be better than it was.
interesting. i find it more appealing as time goes by. although i did like it, (chuno), but in moderation, as i had some major problems with some of the episodes, or character inconsistencies. i did not think i would want to rewatch it, or at least very soon, but now i am already having this desire to rewatch it. actually, it happened to me with other dramas also, it’s like with time, as if my brain starts appreciating the drama more.
@Sean – stir succeeded. So did we hype it up too much? Is that what caused your disappointment?
If not, then what would you have liked to have seen that wasn’t depicted?
*some people are not even satisfied with a warm chocolate brownie with cold French vanilla ice cream drizzled in warm fudge*
@Beez – I think there was a little bit of the hype factor, even though I had prepared myself for it. I know how enthusiastic I am with some shows and everyone else is left scratching their heads after watching it.
I can honestly say it doesn’t take much to keep me happy – all you have to do is give me a cup of tea when I walk through the door and I am over the moon 😊
I really wanted to see more of Yun Ji – I liked how formidable her character was and was a very good foil for the men folk. I think to, I wanted to see more the other side of Dae Gil. I found eps 10 – 17 were drawn out and quite bland, but show certainly picked itself up re the last five episodes.
I’m sorry – who’s Yun Ji
@Beez – she was the female bounty hunter in the earlier episodes 🤔
@Sean – oh yeah. That was Show’s misstep. I felt they didn’t do her bit of the storyline justice.
Sean – Starship Troopers! Please read this in Vader’s voice – Noooooooo!
My 6’2″ player son who is as strong as Thor and looks like a muscled god will see a spider and be reduced to a crying, screaming child.
So yeah, not a lot of bug related film was shown in our house when he was growing up. 🤣😂😅 Example: he took one look at the giant spider Harry Potter forest scene with Ron Weasley, ran out of the room and would not come back until the spiders were all gone.
I guess my bug loving daughter had to show us who is the real boss. 🤣😂😅
I am laughing, phl. Our eldest boy is exactly the same. His siblings threaten to put that scene on from HP all the time.
As for Starship Troopers – Roger Ebert said this in his review all those years ago:
Watching a film that largely consists of interchangeable characters firing machine guns at computer-generated Bugs, I was reminded of the experience of my friend McHugh. After obtaining his degree from Indiana University, he spent the summer in the employ of Acme Bug Control in Bloomington, Ind. One hot summer day, while he was spraying insecticide under a home, a trap door opened above his head, and a housewife offered him a glass of lemonade. He crawled up, filthy and sweaty, and as he drank the lemonade, the woman told her son, “Now, Jimmy–you study your books, or you’ll end up just like him!” I wanted to tell the troopers the same thing 😂🤣😂
@Sean – How awful! I can just picture one of those Starship Trooper alien bugs swallowing her whole!
Sean – a funny Ebert story! Your son’s reaction of intense fear is like my son’s. I can picture that very tall young man running around the house yelling at his brother. 🤣😂😆😅 Family 💖 love!
@phlrxd – not just running either – some physical violence – I tell them to take it outside and commune with the spiders while they’re at it 😂
@seank – What have I told you about this blasphemous comments?
…but didn’t see anything there to convince me to take a look. Seank
@Beez and Sean- 😅🤣😂😆💥
@phl1rxd – I’m just sayin’! JangHyuk is a reason b to watch anything! (Except The Great Merchant) 🙈🙊🙉
@Beez – yes ma’am, indeed he is! I saw the Great Merchant but don’t remember much of it.
@phl1rxd – Then consider yourself lucky! Of all times for my brain cells and routeways to remember every sorry, annoying detail…
But there’s a silver lining – if I had forgotten, I might be tempted to watch it again. Then I’ll be crying in that Vader voice “Aaaaargh! My eyes!”
@Beez – Sometimes, I can’t help myself 😳😜
I nearly said something to Eda the other day when she was seeking thoughts over on the Healer pages re Chuno. But, I restrained myself 😆
Jang Hyuk’s next movie A Child Who Can Die (The Killer) is something I am planning to watch and I will keep my fingers crossed re Bloody Heart 🤞
@sean – I’m looking forward to Bloody Heart but I find myself thinking “oh no! Please don’t let this mean that TPTB (the powers that be) are going b to start regulating Hyuky to the role of those curmudgeonly older actors who always play the left/right minister antagonist in saeguks.
I’ll check out The Killer. Didn’t see that one coming.
But what pray tell, Mr. Fletcher, could there possibly be negative to say about Chuno!?
👀👁️ (Just be glad my side eye emoji has mysteriously vanished).
@Beez – uh oh, official titles are coming out …
I think Hyuky has been trying to transition to more mature roles for a little while. However, I think whatever he takes on will always see him be the tour de force.
As for Chuno – it’s retro without being retro 😝 (I am of to the bunker now and will wait for any incoming comments…)
@Sean, I don’t think Jang Hyuk is trying to transition by choice.
I don’t get what you mean by Chuno is retro. I mean it’s an older drama, why wouldn’t it be retro? I must not understand what you mean by “retro”
@Beez – one of the great strengths Chuno has as a show is that it was very well made at the time, a good production. So, although you can tell when it was made, it still stands alone as a very watchable show. Other shows do not age as well. It would be very difficult to remake Chuno as the original is very fixed in our minds how it should be portrayed. I hope that makes sense.
sean and beez,
yes, that’s how i understood it, it’s a retro, but ageless.
@Eda, @Beez – Eda said it so much better than I 😊
@Sean – yup.
*finally he’s talking sense*
@Beez – I need to print this out – my family will be most impressed 🤣
@Beez – now Beez, don’t get too excited, can’t have you foaming at the mouth…
[Tossing around careless words & stuff]😬
@Beez – I am right with you Miz B! My most hated movie scene is in The Temple of Doom where he and Kate Capshaw fall into the pit of insects. Big UGH! 😳😳😳😬😖
Note – I could not remember which Indiana Jones movie it was so, I goggled it and this is what I found (thankfully without pictures): The Extatosoma Tiaratum is often referred to by many as the “Giant Prickly Stick Insect”. If you have seen the Temple of Doom from the Indiana Jones series, you should immediate recognize this insect monstrosity. This is currently the largest known stick-based insect known to man.
Beez, the funny thing is my daughter has her masters in biology with focus on researching insects in river streams (I think she may have done this to annoy me). She also does school visits to which she brings her numerous boxes containing her vast array of dead pinned bugs to show the students. She keeps these in her special closet next to my bedroom. Note that I never, ever open the door to this closet….
@phl1rxd – your daughter sounds like she’s really fun! 😆 (As long as she leaves the bugs hidden at her home or office)
The steaming and quartering scenes weren’t drawn out though, it happened very fast. What the director focused on were the faces of the characters who watched the execution. If you ever decide to watch it, I can give you heads up on which episode (and the corresponding timestamp) to avoid. I think the show would make for a meaty group watch.
@Beez, @phlrxd and @Jiyuu – The Great Ming Code (as Joseon followed this), quartering was the fifth and lowest means of execution. We would consider this the worst way to be punished, but they didn’t. The act was about ensuring mutilation, rather than pain. Yes, never pleasant to see and I remember squirming re watching this in both shows.
From what I have read, boiling rather than steaming in a cauldron was part of the punishments in the legal system implemented by the first emperor of China. There was also being cut in half at the waist. Qin Shi Huang repudiated Confucianism, so he embraced such punishments. However, once the Qin dynasty ceased to be, the subsequent dynasties developed The Great Ming Code (based on Confucian philosophies) and so boiling and cutting in half were removed as punishments.
As for the hot iron, which I always shudder at too – was used for branding, but there is nothing like a bit of dramatic licence in a show. Torture was by way of flogging and beating.
Thank you Sean for this information. Very informative.
That’s all a bit much, even for me 🤢
If quartering was “only” the fifth and lowest means, what were numbers 1-4?!
Hyosu was also used which sat between levels 2 and 3 – beheading with the head put on display. The family were allowed to collect the head after three days.
Sean – wow. That is a lot to take in. Your comment prompted me to look at the penal code for the Joseon dynasty and also ancient China. Suffuce it to say, I would have tried to be as good as I could be if I lived then…
Phl – yes, it is a lot to take in. My thoughts exactly re being good, but as I was reading in an academic paper the other day, during the Qin Dynasty, so many new laws were introduced that a person wouldn’t know they had transgressed until they had been arrested. It became quite common to see people everywhere dressed in a red uniform as evidence of their criminality.
That aside, I probably would have been punished severely for speaking my mind – either that, or I would have moved somewhere else 🤔😉
Y’all are reminding me, about a pet peeve of mine in modern day Korean dramas – when you see people that are arrested and they have on handcuffs yet the police throw a jacket over the handcuffs, presumably to keep them from being embarrassed by the media, yet the person has bright red rope wrapped around their arms being escorted out of the police station. 😆
@Beez – I always wondered that myself. Also, I always laugh when the chaebols who are convicted of money laundering always come out in wheelchairs but there was H Weinstein’s stunt in LA.,,he had a walker and a wheelchair.
Sean – It is funny that you mention Touch Your Heart as I binged it right after BMP and it was just as good as the first time. I agree with you analysis of drama production. I feel 2012 was a stellar year for dramas. The production values have gotten better every year.
@phl1rxd – yes, of those I completed from 2012, there are a number of stand outs: Arang of course, King2Hearts, The Bridal Mask (not a real favourite of mine, but I liked the concept), The King of Dramas.
I agree. The second half of The King 2Hearts stand out a lot for me. Bridal Mask’s length was equal parts cracktastic and eye-roll inducing but it has memorable characters and themes (like the egg smashing on the rock analogy) and a very powerful ending. But I guess, my favorite from 2012 would be Faith despite the tragedy (in real life) and disappointment (in terms of production values and ratings).
Ah, now with Faith – I enjoyed it, but I found the ending very disappointing. That being said, Hee Sun is in Tomorrow, which I am going to take a look at.
Sean – Tomorrow: Honestly, I am watching this for Hee Sun and the wardrobe. The writing has gotten a bit wonky. Also, Lee Soo Hyuk is just fascinating to watch. I do not know if I will make it to the end.
Phl – I have read some very mixed comments about Tomorrow, but I thought I would at least have a dabble 👀🤔
Sean – I am really excited about From Now On, Showtime!. I caught the first two episodes. This is my jawn! (colloquial term used to refer to a thing, place, person, or event that one need not or cannot give a specific name to). This is a pretty specific theme so I think this may have a small following (I will be one of them).
The first ten minutes are my main man Kim Won Hae playing a shaman and then it jumps to his grandson who can see ghosts. I was like, “Where are my bells?” This is right up my alley. Throw in a detective story with multiple cases and I am sold! Even if it goes south I will stick with this one to the end.
Phl – I am about to start Showtime.
Sean – It may not strike your fancy, but I am loving it. It cannot hurt to take a wee peek.
Phl – Hopefully, today! – I just comleted You Are My Glory this morning. Thank you for the recommendation – it was an absolute, lovely delight.
Ah, KFG, I’m glad you chose this one coz if it weren’t for the group watch I’d probably never watch this and that would be a pity cos it’s fun! I couldn’t figure out how the modern day and Joseon era could work side by side but it does. Plus, as you say, Yoo In-na is absolutely charming. That Han Dong Min is annoying but like you, I don’t think he’s malicious – probably just full of himself and sure that everyone would like him (I do see the charm…) I worry about Yun Wol and hope she will be safe but I’m sure not everyone will survive this 🙁 Ah. All in all, a great start and hope it keeps it up!
let me make a little promise – the fun has just begun!!!
Ah Fangurl – what a delicious two episodes. So delicious in fact, that I am fighting with myself not to jump ahead. Yoo In Na is my favorite K actress, I have seen all her dramas but four and I have re-watched her dramas and found them as engaging on subsequent visits. She is a gem! I 💖💖💖 this drama!
In the movies I’ve seen her in as 2FL she has been overshadowed by the FL (as she should be). That’s why this one is interesting to me. She has a very distinctive look from other K actresses I think, big lips and light brown hair.
Joe – The hair color is one of her distinguishing features. I do think it fits her both in her personality, as well as being complimentary to her skin tone. It must cost a lot at the hairdressers though. 😏
I just love her! She is also on of the best criers in KDrama land – I mean like buckets! of tears – in an instant.
phl, I do think it fits her both in her personality
we look at the same thing and see it different. how interesting!
@Eda – Yep, we are all unique. Your uniqueness is what makes you special! Frankly it would be boring if we were all the same. 😉⭐
Yoo In Na is one of the few actors I know who let themselves jump around as main and second leads depending on projects. Usually when other stars make it big, they stick with lead roles (and vice versa, only as supporting characters once they’re not as popular). She’s fine jumping around between sweet/endearing and petty/villainy roles too.
Yes, just a gem – and plays many guest roles too. And because of QIHM, she has become a noted narrator of historical documentaries 😊
Sean – I was not aware of that. I would be proud to have this on my resume: “noted narrator of historical documentaries”. Awesome. Thanks for this tidbit on Yoo In Na.