@BE – Sorry. But I’m consistent. 😊

@BE – Ditto! Before my “retirement”, my younger co-workers began calling me Aloysius and/or Miss Sophia. Aloysius just for being older with old ways and not caring what they thought about it. And Miss Sophia is an amalgamation of the Sophia characters from Golden Girls and The Color Purple – just blurting out the truth when people were talking B.S. instead of only thinking that truth. 😆

On Meng’s slow to pick up on things deal. Part of it is meant to be comedic; after all there is very little comedy in this, but part of it is so Mei Chang Su can spell out things for the audience, utilizing our sympathy with Meng to do so.

@BE – I should totally understand. I don’t know why I brought it up. ❤ ❤ ❤😃

@BE – have you heard Park Hyo shin? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ltmxp9uS-U&feature=youtu.be

For me, personally, now that Luther’s gone, PHS is the greatest male singer alive.

@Elaine Phu – “…dozens of soldiers being killed eg in the Xie Yu battle”
please help my memory – who was killed in bringing down Xie Yu?

🌬 whoosh! Right over my head 😆

@BE – I ❤ how you get from one thought to another 😆 But I did YouTube search and watched the first video that came up. I’m not really into Latin music. I’m more of a Park Hyo shin/Luther Vandross/80’s Peabo Bryson kinda gal 😉

@melka – I thought the passage was very fitting. It is, after all, designed by The Divine Talent’s brain for a prince who will one day be emperor. It makes sense that it would be comfortable (decked out) for just such an occasion as this. I’m only surprised that MCS didn’t think to fill it with books for Prince Jing to pass the time. But then we wouldn’t have the plot device of the travelogue book getting into Consort Jing’s hands. 😆

Test2

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Alright, y’all, bear with me here. I was noodling around with the comment @CP made below about the conversation between MCS and Jingrui, and the translation, and that sent me off on a tangent to look up a couple of things that I should have looked into a lot sooner, during the earlier episodes.

One of those things was I got curious about the whole “Chiyan Army” that gets wiped out in the opening scene of our drama, and I went looking to find where that name comes from and what it means. And to my surprise and delight, I found that the “chi” is that very character that CP was mentioning from the translation, as meaning “pure, sincere.” As I noted in a follow-up comment, it can also mean “bare, naked.” BUT, it can also mean “red” (scarlet, crimson). (@BE: this is the character used in the Chinese name of the translator that you’ve mentioned before, Red Pine; the Chinese name is 赤松 “chi song”). This is a good example of how a single Chinese character can have different meanings. How to know which meaning is the correct one in a given case? Context, basically–what other characters it’s combined with, where it appears in a sentence, and so forth. (Also note, the common word for “red” is “hong” 红 , which is why 赤 -meaning-red is often translated as crimson or scarlet, to differentiate.

Anyway. So the Chiyan Army (赤焰军) can translated as the Army of the Crimson Flame (“yan” 焰 is flame), which you gotta admit, sounds pretty cool. I went wandering over to Baidu baike, which is like the Chinese Wikipedia, and there’s a whole article on the Chiyan Army! So for y’all’s edification, I dashed out a (very rough) translation of just the short section on the formation of the army (I don’t think it has any spoilers beyond what we know in the first half of the show):

“The emperor gave special consent for the establishment of a new army, and conferred on Lin Xie complete authority to direct it, as well as to take the rank of a great general ([Emperor] Xiao Xuan thereafter once said “Of those whom I have appointed, all others fall by the wayside”). Once the army was formed, its imperially bestowed name was “Crimson Flame,” and it was also given the “Army of the Crimson Flame Flag” as the great banner of the entire host; its soldiers had silver armor with red underrobes, bearing at the neck a medal of fiery-striped silver, and at their wrists bracers of crimson flame (the former being engraved with each individual soldier’s name, that should they thereafter be found on the field of the fallen, it might be used to identify their remains, and they be honored by entry in the rolls of the departed). Due to the high skill of its soldiers, the excellence of its equipment, the abundance of its supplies, the martial habituation of its generals, and the royal trust it enjoyed, it became the most relied upon martial host since Xiao Xuan ascended to the throne, and was perennially posted to guard the northern borders of the empire.” 

I found this quite interesting as background on the army that is so important to the events of our drama. I still find it almost incomprehensible that the entire host of 70,000 men was wiped out; for comparison, Gettysburg was the most deadly battle of the American Civil War, and the upper estimate of casualties for the three days of that battle is around 51,000 men, of whom less than 10,000 were killed outright (rather than wounded, captured, or missing). So 70,000 killed is just utter carnage on a scale difficult to imagine.

Anyway, food for thought, it seemed to me.

Whereas I was thinking (because this show probably has me over thinking 😉) that if it takes Commander Meng this long to get it even with MCS painstaking laying it out, then wouldn’t it be suspicious to Head Eunuch if Meng does thank him because Head Eunuch would know Meng didn’t come up with the thought on his own. 😆 (My poor Meng woobs.)

@BE – You haven’t given us details so I’ll assume it’s private but just know … best wishes and prayers.

So much discussion about the nap! I think when I watched that scene I wondered briefly – are they gonna do the hanky panky? And then I thought naaah. Isn’t the Emperor too old? Now I’m like ewwwww old uncle sex haha. Thanks you guys.

Meng = 😍😍😍

@Elaine Phua – Commander Meng is so adorable ❤.

My 2 cents on the Ep. 26 pavilion scene:
The conversation between MCS and Jingrui is one of my all-time favourite scenes of dialogue in this drama. The Chinese is so beautifully written here, and the lines flow so well, yet so clearly convey the emotion in this scene; MCS’s sadness at the pain he had to cause Jingrui, and Jingrui’s disappointment yet forgiving and understanding heart.

As someone with a very amateur interest in languanges/translations and an obsession with trying to understand the nuances within, I took my own stab at translating this scene just for fun, and I found that it actually helped me to pinpoint why these sentences sounded so beautiful to me. I wasn’t originally planning on sharing, but this seemed like the kind of over-analysis our group here would enjoy, so humour me guys….
(Note: I used Viki’s subs as a reference point – see footnotes for context):

MCS: I used the cruelest method to reveal all the truths, and did not consider your feelings or our friendship.
JR: Yes. I was once deeply saddened by what you did. (1) But I am no longer a self-centered child. I understand now that insofar as we are human, we will have to make choices. (2) You chose what you thought was most important, and sacrificed me. (3) That was merely your choice. If I harbour resentment because I was not chosen, then wouldn’t there be too many unforgivable things in this world? After all, no one has the responsibility to put me first, or put me as the priority; no matter how much I wish they would, I cannot force them to.
MCS: Jing rui, as long as we have known each other, you have been sincere towards me (4), yet this is how I have treated you.
JR: I treated you this way because I was willing. If my sincerity is reciprocated, of course I will be glad. But if it is not, I still have no regrets.

(1)  Subs: There was a time where I was very upset because of what you did. – The Chinese line uses the phrase “曾经”(ceng jing), meaning “once”. I feel like this gives more a sense of past, and therefore gives more weight to the transformation in JR’s understanding/perspective on the situation which he explains in the subsequent lines.
(2)  Subs: I understand that all humans have to make a choice – The Chinese says “凡是人”(fan shi ren) (literally, “as long as we are human/insofar as we are human”) – splitting hairs on this translation here, but I love how it sounds in Chinese because I always feel like once you start referencing ideas about the human condition, all dialogue instantly seems more insightful, LOL. I also wanted to give more context to the word that translates to “choice” here – he uses the phrase “取舍”(qu she)– 取 means take, 舍 means to give up/sacrifice – so he is referring to a specific kind of choice to choose something while also sacrificing something, which is important in the next line.
(3)  Subs: You chose what you believed was important but relinquished me – The actual line is “你取了你认为重要的东西 (you chose what you thought was important), 舍弃了我 (gave up/sacrificed me).” Slight difference in “relinquish” vs. “sacrifice”; relinquish implies letting go of something which is being forcefully pulled away from you, whereas sacrifice has more of an element of letting go despite some degree of cost/price to pay which more befits their situation. Note how the words 取/舍from the previous line are repeated here – this makes the flow from the last line smoother and sounds more pleasing to the ear as the idea comes full circle.
(4)  Subs: you have always been truthful to me – The word translated as “truthful” here is “赤诚” (chi cheng). This is a very interesting word with a somewhat layered meaning. “赤” is most commonly used in the phrase “赤子之心” (chi zi zhi xin)– this is used to describe a person who has a very pure & righteous heart that is not sullied/corrupted, and “诚” means honest/truthful. So “赤诚” means some combination of those things: truthful but in a pure/righteous way, hence the closest word I could think of is “sincere”

Especially since Prince Jing has to leave. ewww!

If the Emperor was really just going to “nap,” there’s no reason Prince Jing & Consort Jing can’t continue their visit

How long will it take before Prince Jing will figure out who Mei Changsu really is? I also think that Consort Jing will find out first.

I would like to find out more about the connection between Xia Jiang and Princess Xuanji. Any non-spoilery insights are greatly appreciated.

Commander Meng is a little slow on the uptake, so it is easy for us newbie viewers to identify with him. His less than subtle attempt to retrieve the book for MCS made me chuckle.

Dang K, need I say it once more? Seriously, what a champion. Could there have been a more lucid easy to follow review of these three episodes which seem to be finally setting the scene for whatever is coming next, after the whiplash of the previous six and the introduction of Xia Jiang (has anyone mentioned Wang Yong Quan also served as an Assistant Director for show?), the Dead Lead Hell Charmer, as in “oh ho you thought the Marquis was nasty?”

And turned away seemingly from that big picture to threads of smaller events pertaining to the court; Mother and Son Jing; will that stubborn young gurgler of a water buffalo Jing’s bromance ever be requited for his BFF Lin Shu; The King, Crown Prince Whine; and what’s Yu up to; with one big subplot–but how does that all fit in?–Banruo and the Fourth Sister (to which I can only say, poor effing Tong Lu–for those of us without the stuff of princes or Divine Talents, you know, the kinds of sweet hearted guys who deliver vegetables and have slight overbites, what in the world can those kinds of guys do about such a beautiful damsel in distress promising unforgettable favors (or as the case may wind up, delivering them? And, my brothers, it has ever been the same, how could you blame him? Which of you proof to refuse her?)

Along the lines of a similar theme but courtside, vis a vis, naptime. When Gao Zhan was looking for the Emperor before he found him sick in bed, what did any of you think of the aha leering giggle that came to his face? And in the interview with the Empress, what did you think Consort Yue was asking Consort Jing about vis a vis her “cooking skills”? Or the Empress, who appears in her cooler relations with Emperor likely glad that the old lecher has consorts, so she won’t have to deal with it anymore, what do you think she was taking so much delight with Yue about, telling her, hey, you can know the recipe girl, but if you do not know how to stir in the ingredients, well then…

Of course, it was skeezy to watch the Old Emp pat his couch for Yue to sit by his side, and does anyone wonder by now, but that Jing, the woman can just love the man to dreamless sleep, but he still finds Yue, well, might keep him awake? All the restraint of the actors in these scenes have such a lurid undercurrent to them.

But of course, the real scenes in these three that J3ffc correctly pointed out is what keeps us connected to show in these three episodes, which seemingly take us back to our sense of not really yet getting how all these things tie into show focus as was the case early on, was the twin meetings first with YuJin and Jinrui, our two most sympathetic characters throughout, and then echoing the wistful meeting at the Pavillion At the Edge of Town between MCS & Nihuang, the farewell between Jingrui and MCS, in which Jingrui takes his, “you thought I was a sweetheart before,” and raises it with “I am now not only a sweet heart but have the wisdom of saints, despite having had to swallow back swords to my throat, my heart, and my innards.” As he departs, we like Mei Chang Su want to call out to him: “Life is a b*itch, young son, but bless you, your pure heart is like the sun breaking through the clouds of this world. And may it always remain so.”

Will be back later, but my favorite line from the 3 eps:
“I hear Noble Consort Yue is a little unhappy.”

Oh and that bad, bad hizeh. Too much wine, too many women.

So hilarious when General Meng asked for the book back and said because he loves reading! Lol what a blatant lie!

Oh, I hadn’t picked up that point of probable connection between Banruo (and the is-she-actually-dead Princess Xuanji) and the Big Bad Xia Jiang but that makes sense he went to the trouble of destroying the Chiyan Army for a reason, not just cos. And also, well, Banruo’s revenge is just as valid as Mei Changsu’s, right? Her people were decimated by the Chiyan Army and subjugated by the Emperor. I’d say, fair play to her. And also, Fourth Sister is very familiar. What’s she been in?!

My take on the Emperor’s reaction to Crown Prince’s behaviour was more that he saw himself reflected (er, literally in the water) and he maybe had a small revelation that he may not be quite the ace Emperor / man / father that he could be. He seemed kind of winded. Is he realising the next Emperor really shouldn’t be anything like him? Well then, hello super rule-abider and would never be so gauche as to play music, Prince Jing! That’s just my thought.

I totally read the ‘nap’ with Prince Jing’s mum as something far more active – and see from @manukajoe’s comment and replies I was not alone in that 😉 It actually made me feel ill, though. Ugh, the Emperor laying it about with all his consorts / whatnots. Serves him right he got poorly after… See, apart from the music, what did Crown Prince do so different, huh?

As for Jingrui, I think he did a good job of saying he understood whilst also retaining his hurt and upset. He absolutely doesn’t let MCS off the hook – and, frankly, nor should he. In no way did Mei Changsu create that scene so Jingrui could discover the truth gently. And Jingrui knows it. I’m still mad at MCS for the way he organised that lethal gathering 😑

Anyho, I want to see more of Nihuang but otherwise, I am entertained, have no clue where the story is heading (other than in some no doubt bittersweet / upsetting ending for all) and feel totally on Commander Meng’s wavelength. As in, confused and in need of someone to patiently explain things. Thanks, kfangurl! 😄

I am currently on holidays, so I actually had to watch some parts of these episodes on the beach, just to be able to participate here!! So there were at least a couple of things that I missed, I think.

What I didn’t miss, is that the Jing family, mother and son, are certainly going up places, both of them. And I got this feeling in those episodes that Master Eunuch seems to like and favour them? Actually, I am beginning to like this gentleman. He seems very clever and capable of handling the Emperor, which must not be an easy feat. Also, as I said, I do feel that he prefers Prince Jing (and his mother). Like, even in the last episode, before the Crown Prince melt down, he suggests to the Emperor to take a stroll in Consort Jing’s palace. Why is that, I don’t know. Is it because he just sees that the Jings are the best people around, or does he have an agenda?

I agree with you K, Prince Yu is bound to start mistrusting MCS. He is a clever man, after all. And as Banruo pointed out, since MCS showed up, the Crown Prince has suffered big setbacks, but Yu did not benefit from them, and he will eventually start finding this strange.

Speaking of Banruo, she’s definitely my favourite villain and, to be honest, this whole show (and novel, I guess) could have been filmed in a way that she would be the heroine. I mean, take a look at this plot: a kingdom is decimated, its Princess and a few acolytes survive and set up a whole secret spy organization in order to avenge the death of their loved ones. Then said Princess passes (by the way, did she pass? There were so many instances in those episodes of people saying “had she been alive…”, that I started wondering if she’s really dead) and her work is continued by a clever and beautiful young woman who silently and efficiently manages to become right hand to the main contender to the throne with her only aim being to finally take revenge on the Evil Empire that killed her people. Doesn’t it sound like a real nice plot for a show? What is more, a show with a woman lead? I would certainly watch it!

Anyway, what I didn’t get and I only sort of understood by the review here: are Banruo and Xia Jiang working for the same cause?

The travelogue hint, honestly, I didn’t get it and I still don’t get it. It’s one of those things in this show that I decide to simply accept as plot elements without really understanding them (like, as I mentioned before, the fact that somehow MCS face is completely altered without plastic surgery).

My take on the Emperor’s reaction regarding the Crown Prince and the fact that he was not respecting mourning for Grandma 6 months after her death (time sure flies by in this show) is that a) he does love him after all (he was worried that he looked thinner) so is disappointed b) he realises that the Prince is worthless but does not know what to do, because the obvious choice – deposing him and promoting Prince Yu is not to his liking because, well, Prince Yu is a much more efficient and shrewd person and the Emperor feels threatened by him. So I guess he doesn’t know what to do and eventually this can only benefit Jing, because the Emperor will most likely favour him even more in order to recreate a balance of power in the palace.

And, my last remark: Jingrui. He’s matured, yes. But personally I found his demeanor towards MCS somehow passive agressive. Can’t say I cared for that… Sorry!

So friends, we are halfway through, and as if I were addressing the Emperor, I don’t dare to offer a perspective, but will try to do so anyway.

From the first minute, it was extremely clear that this was going to be a very Smart show, a perspective that was amplified by every episode since and by our community commentary. But what I have struggled to find in my first watch has been wherein lies the heart of our story. Intellectually, it’s easy to see: Mei Changsu (The Man with a Thousand Names and At Least Two Faces) and everyone he cared about was egregiously wronged in the past and nearly everyone in the show was involved one way or another. But in the watching, I’ve not felt emotionally engaged…until this week. And I’ve been trying to figure out why.

If there was a scene that should have done it, it would have been the very unhappy un-birthday party for Jingrui, but to be honest, the most salient feeling I had throughout that highly eventful episode was a combination of confusion and vertigo. Who was who? They did ….WHAT? And although numerous llves were being torn apart it was still more of an intellectual experience than an emotional one. So I’m reading all of the commentary here – which is of such a high quality that I can only shake my head in awe – and I get that I’m supposed to feel awful for everybody, but somehow I don’t. 

But that changed this week, and it was in perhaps one of the simplest, most understated scenes of the whole drama: the interview between Jangrui, about to go to Southern Chu, with Mei Changsu. We knew how heartbroken he was, but here we see it in action and more than that, we see it in sharp relief to his incredible sense of decency and honor. So why do I find myself misting up here and nowhere else until now? I mean, I like many of the characters (and know that some I cherish will never see episode 54) but what has a been missing.

I think it’s this: with few exceptions (actually, I can’t think of any right now) the horrific events of this show have been almost exclusively in the past, and their details doled out to us in the most miserly, careful fashion – with the promise that All Will Be Revealed. But, to me, the evident pain and complex emotions of Jangrui, in the here and now, were so much more compelling (although I understand his issues are dwarfed by the woes of, literally, thousands, including many of our key protagonists). 

I hope, and expect, that these threads will converge going forward and that this show will not only intrigue the brain but also touch my heart as it has so many of yours.

After the fireworks of the last 3 episode arc, I have to say I really enjoyed the more reflective pace and sense of regrouping here.

And I have to admit that I was as invested in the whole very low-key cliffhanger of whether Jingyu would manage to figure out the whole travelogue puzzle and solve the hidden mystery (that he doesn’t realize is a mystery yet) of MCS’s identity. In fact, I was enough invested that I skipped ahead a little ways into the next episode, for the first time in this watch! I am pretty firmly convinced that Consort Jing has in fact figured out MCS’s identity from the travelogue, and is (so far, at least) refraining from cluing Jingyu in. Will he find out soon, or is he fated to not know for some time yet? Argh, pins and needles here!!