Welcome to the Open Thread, everyone! Thanks for joining in on this group watch of this very special show! ❤️
As I mentioned in my announcement post, these are my notes, exactly as they appear on Patreon.
ZERO SPOILER POLICY
We will be adopting a ZERO SPOILER POLICY for this Open Thread, except for events that have happened in the show, up to this point.
This includes, but is not limited to, how characters &/or relationships develop, later in the show.
The spoiler tags don’t work in email notifications, therefore, please take note that WE WILL NOT BE USING SPOILER TAGS FOR THIS OPEN THREAD.
We need to protect the innocent! 😉
Without further ado, here are my reactions to this set of episodes; have fun in the Open Thread, everyone! ❤️
My thoughts
Episodes 49-50
E49-50. Well, my friends. All is NOT well on the OTP front, in the wake of Buyi’s successful revenge, and I suppose I should have seen this coming.
There’s just so much that comes after “I’ve killed my supposed father for no apparent good reason because you have no idea about the truth and I have no evidence to prove that that’s the truth.” 😭
Through it all, Buyi’s just so determined not to involve Shaoshang or her family, because he knows that death is an almost certain thing, for him, for his bloody deed, and he doesn’t want her or her family to have to pay the price for his actions.
That’s why, even though it’s painful to watch Buyi distance himself from Shaoshang – from telling her that she shouldn’t have come to look for him, to telling her that their fate is over – I understand where he’s coming from.
He thinks that he’s a dead man walking, and that no good can come from Shaoshang associating with him. And that’s why he pushes her away; not because he doesn’t love her, but because he does.
He doesn’t want her to die with him, even though she says that she’s ready to do so; he wants her to live on and have a good life, even without him. Ack. My heart. 😭
I do love how Shaoshang is so determined to stick with Buyi till the very end, even though he’s literally cutting her off.
The way she rides onto the scene on that horse, when he’s being pelted with arrows, and extends her hand, to tell him that she’s come for him, is so badass.
And the way he takes that hand without hesitation, is his true heart speaking. He doesn’t actually want to be separated from her, and in this moment where there’s no time to think, he instinctively takes her hand and cleaves to her, as they ride off, away from his would-be captors.
I couldn’t help cheering for Shaoshang, in this moment. What a heroine she is. 🤩 She probably doesn’t have a plan as to how they’re going to survive; she just knows that she needs to get Buyi outta there, and she act on it. I love that about her.
That’s why it hurts extra, when they get to that cliff, and Buyi throws himself off over the edge (in a very artfully filmed move, I just had to say), so that Shaoshang won’t have to die with him.
She was literally ready to die with him, but he wouldn’t accept that, and instead, chose to cut off their fate, so that she might live.
Gah. I can see why he would do that, but I can also see why this would hurt Shaoshang so much.
To her, this is him pushing her away, and disrespecting her personal agency, and essentially abandoning her, while going his own way, without regard for her words and desires.
What a difficult, difficult situation they find themselves in, sob. 😩
I can see why Shaoshang would fall so ill afterwards. Not only has she been through a lot physically, she’s drained mentally, and she’s deeply, devastatingly heartbroken as well.
It seems to me that Shaoshang’s poured out all that she could, for Buyi, from the bottom of her heart, and with all of her being, and that final rejection, was just the final straw for her, that causes her to decide that there is no going back, with her and Buyi.
And so, even when Third Prince comes to see her with the news that Buyi is alive, Shaoshang’s reaction is so tired and muted, like she’s too exhausted to care anymore.
I’m glad that Shaoshang’s testimony comes in so useful, because her testimony is what causes the Emperor to issue the order to bring Buyi back.
On that note, I just have to say that I cannot for the life of me rationalize how they could have known that Buyi was alive, and yet just left him there, instead of bringing him back.
Even if they’d thought of him as a criminal, shouldn’t they have brought him back to face judgment?
And, even if they didn’t have the manpower or equipment to bring him back, shouldn’t they have gone back for him immediately, instead of just leaving him lying in the cold, on the side of the cliff, for 2 whole days, in the middle of winter, while they debated over his guilt?
I just don’t get that?
ANYWAY. I’m glad for Shaoshang’s quick-wittedness, because her warning to Third Prince about General Zuo’s personal vendetta against Buyi, is what saves Buyi’s rescue from being sabotaged.
On a more poetic note, I couldn’t help but notice that it’s the Shaoshang string that saves Buyi – again.
The first time, it had helped to remove that arrow from his chest, and this time, it’s helped to keep him secured to the vines on the side of the cliff.
The difference this time, is that Buyi’s devotion is part of the equation. If he hadn’t been wearing that Shaoshang string, it couldn’t have saved him either.
I like this idea that his keeping Shaoshang close to his heart like this, literally helps to save his life.
It feels meaningful too, that Buyi would hold onto that string so tightly, that the physicians are unable to loosen his grip, to treat the wound underneath – until he hears the sound of Shaoshang’s flute.
It’s his subconscious awareness of her presence, that gives him enough peace of mind, to allow him to loosen his grip.
Augh. That really is very affecting, to think that Shaoshang has such a deep and strong effect on him.
I’m gutted that even as Buyi regains consciousness, Shaoshang falls ill, and becomes more determined than ever, that there is no future between her and Buyi, because she’s convinced that he’s never treated her with true sincerity, and has withheld a lot of himself from her.
I do get it, but it still hurts, y’know? 😩
I’m glad that the Empress is such a comforting presence to Shaoshang, and I’m also glad that Shaoshang is still determined to investigate the truth, even though she’s decided that her fate with Buyi is ended.
It’s a relief to see Buyi back in the palace, and I can’t help but clock that he looks pretty cool with the mane of glory flowing down around his back and shoulders, even as he lies back in the throne room.
The recounting of how Buyi had seen his father murdered by Ling Yi is tragic and poignant, as is the flashback to how young Buyi had first met the Emperor, and the Emperor had asked his name.
I appreciate the drama with which Buyi answers, when, in the present, the Emperor asks him to tell him with his own lips, his real name.
It’s the first time he’s able to articulate his name officially like this, and the way Show plays it as being very momentous, feels fitting: Huo. Wu. Shang.
Episodes 51-52
E51-52. Our story keeps moving along, but – gah – I just don’t see how our OTP is going to reunite, through all of this. 😩
I’m glad that Shaoshang’s investigation unearths the evidence that is needed to establish that Buyi is telling the truth, but it does niggle at me, that it is not even mentioned, that Shaoshang was part of the investigation.
I rationalize that it’s possible Shaoshang had requested that she not be mentioned, because she doesn’t want to be seen as meddling in Buyi’s affairs, given how they’ve supposedly ended the fate between them, but there’s a corner of my brain that still wants recognition for Shaoshang’s efforts, y’know? 😅
What’s more important, is that scene where Buyi and Shaoshang finally come face to face, and Buyi retains that he had intended to abandon Shaoshang, and that he doesn’t regret it.
It’s utterly heartbreaking, because I can see where they’re both coming from, and I can also see why they’re not budging from their individual stances.
Buyi had made his choice, and he feels the need to stand by that choice, even if the bloodbath is over now. It’s true that he’d decided to abandon Shaoshang, and he’s not going to deny it now, to make things easier on himself.
He’s not going to ask for forgiveness, because he knows that the choice he’d made, is unforgiveable.
As for Shaoshang, I can absolutely see why she’s so hurt and disappointed. She really had given her all to loving Buyi, and he had let her down, where it hurts her the most.
Plus, he’s not even asking for her to take him back now, so it seems the natural thing for her to do, to also lean towards dissolving their engagement and relationship.
Grargh. This is so hard to watch. 😩
I have to admit to caring less about the Empress requesting to be dethroned, though I concede that it makes narrative sense, since we’ve seen glimpses of her unhappiness for a long time.
Her decision, which is as much for her son as it is for herself, also makes sense.
I would believe that she would choose dethronement, so that the deposition of her son as Crown Prince would appear to be in line with her dethronement, rather than a result of his own incompetence. That’s a mother’s love at work, and I admire and appreciate it.
And then, my hope for an OTP reunion gets dimmer and dimmer, as Buyi readies to leave the capital for 7 years, and Shaoshang opts to live in Changqiu Palace, to keep the ex-Empress company.
On that note, I just wanted to mention that even though my subtitles say that Buyi waits for Shaoshang at the capital gates for 3 hours, it’s actually 6 hours.
What Fei mentions, is that they’ve waited for “三个时辰” which Google Translate will try to tell you is a total of 3 hours, but is literally 3 blocks of 2 hours, which makes 6 hours.
I just thought you guys might like to know that.
That scene where Yuanyi realizes that Shaoshang doesn’t intend to come back from Changqiu Palace is so very affecting and poignant.
The way Yuanyi rushes after Shaoshang, and screams her name, and tearfully apologizes for how she’s treated her in the past, is so heartrending.
For Yuanyi’s sake, I did wish that Shaoshang would reconsider her decision, but in the end, I know that Shaoshang’s doing this for herself, and that’s why it’s important that she doesn’t change her mind for someone else, even if it’s her own mother.
I must say that Show does the 5-year highlight reel very well.
It gives me wistful sorts of feels, to see how the world keeps on moving and how people keep on living, even as Buyi and Shaoshang relegate themselves to the punishment of their choosing.
Buyi looks visibly worn out, like he’s had his soul taken from him, while Shaoshang looks sad on the inside, even when she smiles on the outside.
Augh, these two. It’s so clear that they haven’t forgotten each other.
Which is why it’s so hard to watch Shaoshang actually take Yuan Shen up on his offer, and get engaged to him, so as to set the Empress’s mind at ease.
I’m relieved to see Buyi finally return to the Capital after 5 years instead of the 7 years that he’d planned, but it’s still heartbreaking, all the same.
It’s hard to see him be a shell of himself, all dull and lifeless, and it’s hard to see him come face to face with Shaoshang, only for their separation to be emphasized, all over again.
The way he looks at her, so intently, even from afar, is quite arresting, honestly. It feels like he’s trying to memorize her face, maybe, because he thinks that he might never see her again, which, oof. 😭
And then when Shaoshang opts to turn away from him and get on that horse, he doesn’t miss a step, or bat an eye; he goes straight to adjusting her stirrups for her, just like he’d used to do.
Not gonna lie; that flashback to a happier Buyi, with so much life and hope in his eyes, was sharply, deeply poignant, because of the extreme contrast to how Buyi is now, in the present, with none of that life or hope left in his countenance. 😭💔
I can’t help but feel disappointed that Shaoshang rides away from Buyi without any sign of hesitation, after informing him that she’s much different from the Shaoshang of before, and can now ride even without stirrups, thankyouverymuch.
The way Yuan Shen steps in to say his piece, as Shaoshang’s fiancé, feels like a vain, desperate attempt to establish his territory.
Even though Buyi says nothing in response, and only respectfully bows before walking off in his measured way, the look on Yuan Shen’s face indicates that he’s unsettled by Buyi’s very presence.
Yuan Shen knows – as much as we know – that Shaoshang will always love Buyi, even if she won’t allow herself to admit it, or act on it.
The whole thing with Jitong, where she lords it over Shaoshang, claiming that she’ll soon be engaged to Buyi, and then gets thrown splat on her face, by Buyi’s gift of dowry for her future marriage to someone else, feels like Show’s way of paving the way for an OTP reunion, I’m thinking.
Because, if Jitong has it out for Shaoshang, perhaps that will make it necessary for Buyi to swoop in to save her life? And that might potentially trigger an OTP reconciliation?
I know, I know. Shaoshang’s engaged to Yuan Shen. But.. Show’s going to have to fix this, somehow, right, in the last 4 episodes?
Felt so heartbroken for Ling Buyi during that scene when he was getting drunk screaming at the top of his lungs smashing pots outside the tavern. In hidsight, after that blood bath of a vengeance he carried out, I realised he wasn’t upset just because lost a crucial witness/evidence, it was probably more because he had lost any hope of bringing Ling Yi to justice by legal means and because he now had no choice but to take action out-of-the-law, he expected to die at the end (during the fight or executed by law) and lose the opportunity to be with the one living person he loved the most (Shaoshang). He was just devastated and it was so heart-wrenching to watch. He was also probably torn because he had to choose between avenging the slaughter of his family and clan, or choose Shaoshang and because of the lack of the last shred of evidence (so he thought) he couldn’t have both. Either way he would have to make a sacrifice.
There was more pathos in these episodes than I remembered, when I was finishing the drama the first time, in a race to what I hoped was a desired ending. This time, I cried at Shaoshang’s grief, at Buyi’s life of grief, at the Empress’s sacrifice on behalf of her son, at Yuanyi’s tears, and any number of times in between. I remember the blood from my first watch more than the sadness.
I could practically see Yuan Shen’s clenched fist, shaking at the heaven’s and hear his cry “Damn you, Buyi!” when Buyi makes his ill-timed (or perfectly timed) return. So near to gaining Shaoshang’s hand and yet so far. He’s been a prig, but I can’t help but feel sad for him.
I want to spend more time with the Cheng clan and their growing family. There are some pretty interesting characters in that household, and with only four episodes to go and lots to resolve, I don’t think we’ll be spending a lot of time there. I thought the 5-year highlight reel of them was enchanting.
Shaoshung’s save, arriving on horseback and whisking her man away from sure death. Really wonderful cinematography. She continues to be one of The Most Interesting female lead characters. She is so surely female, but rarely falls into female tropes such as putting her love for Buyi before her own needs and values, or acting as the moral compass in the relationship. Girl knows who she is!
Followed by… Buyi throwing himself backwards of the horse and over the cliff. As KFG said, very artfully done. Even seeing it a second time, I gasped “Oh, no!”
Does anyone know what happened to Liang Qiu Qi? I think I missed something.
You might be interested to know, Leslie, that her arrival at The Red Birthday stops our Buyi murdering all of the Ling women and children – eek! His reasoning to kill everyone was that Papa-Actually-Uncle-Ling slaughtered all the Huo family so they should be slaughtered in return. Niao Niao (surrounded by all those dead bodies and facing a bloody half mad Buyi who has hidden his true identity from her and everyone) still has the presence of mind to point out that Uncle Ling is a monster, and Buyi is not…
So glad she halted the slaughter. So, indeed, something of a moral compass. Not so much in a traditional way, though, as in trying to move him away from his revenge obsession into something more “acceptable” or noble. She’s a little bloodthirsty herself. Or, at least, an eye for an eye kind of gal. At least in the first couple of years we know her.
I was also wondering what happened to Liang Qiu Qi
Eep, I have fallen behind on my watch – The Legend of Shenli is also reaching its end and I’ve gotten a bit distracted! But reading kfangurl’s notes and your comments I remember it well and (in true gleeful dramatic fashion) am looking forward to seeing these episodes again! I take cruel delight when stories reach the All Is Lost moment!! And all does seem lost. Oof, General Ling – I mean, General Hua – plays the broken “hero” so well. I think I have to use quotes around the word hero. He definitely travelled a fair bit further west than even the wicked witch, well beyond an antihero for me anyway… Still, I feel very sorry for him, though much more sorry for Niao Niao. She couldn’t have done more for him.
the Empress recounts how she is ended up married to the emperor but she says “you wanted me to be Empress”. What’s up with that? Sounds as if emperor made a deal (probably with Empress’ Uncle that Empress nor Consort Yue are aware of.
I must say that during my first watch, I never understood why LB had proposed marriage in the first place if he knew he was bent on revenge, but this time ’round, I finally got it that he had planned on bringing Fake Daddy Ling to justice through the law but when that didn’t pan out, he was left with no other way to get it done other than bloody murder & mayhem.🗡️
I need to rewatch the EPS 51-52 before I comment further.
Me too, Beez! I remember first watch being so confused as to why Ling Buyi persued Niao Niao when his intentions were always going to make it impossible for them to be together. But this watch, I got it that he’d thought he was closing in on Papa-Actually-Uncle Ling, compiling evidence and witnesses to expose the truth he’d seen as a boy. So in that sense, I felt better that his love for Niao Niao wasn’t clouded by the obvious ending he was carreening toward.
However, I was pretty cross the whole way through this second watch at how often he chided Niao Niao for not confiding in him when he never confided in her his true identity. I understood his unwillingness to share his real name was probably to keep her safe, given the murder-y nature of Papa-Actually-Uncle-Ling. But the way he kept on at Niao Niao to open up to him and not do things on her own really was extremely hypocritical!!
In LB’s defense, there were at least 3 occasions where he was about to tell her but the Show’s need for suspense and it’s need to get to this moment won out. Besides, that’s not the bee in NiaoNiao’s bonnet. Because of her unique (for her time) personality, she’s down for the blood and revenge so if keeping that secret was needed, she’s fine with that. Her issue is the abandonment. I almost think had he told her what was about to happen, she would have tried to join him, which he probably knew and so he didn’t tell her.
This too was something I missed in my first watch because I thought she was angry about him “abandoning” her to save her life (when he threw himself backwards off the horse) which seemed dumb to me. But this time, I must’ve paid better attention and now I see that she’s upset that he abandoned her when he made the choice to proceed with his revenge without her.
Oh, I think though it’s the same thing isn’t it? She is hurt because, as you say, she totally got why he’d want such bloody vengeance but he never shared all those dark secrets with her. I know she keeps saying abandoned (which makes sense given her experience of regular abandonement) but I tie into that truth abandonement. His half-very-late-in-the-day stutterings of confession do not persuade me – and I think they would have totally made the difference to her if he’d actually spat it out. Drama-wise, though, I love the calamity! I am gratified he’s suffered. I hate that she had to as well. And, yes, I do really want a joyous, no-secrets-ever-again, happily ever after!!
oh these episodes!!! what heartbreak and pain. i watched snippets of Buyi adjusting Shaoshang’s stirrups and the pain and longing and desperation – and distance – was so keenly felt even though it was a snippet with no context and I hadn’t been re-watching this and hadn’t been on this journey with them for a while. i get where both are coming from but i just want them to be happy together!!
also Yuanyi realising Shaoshang was gone – the first time i watched this it felt a little “hah you deserve it!” but now this time on following the group watch i do feel a bit sorry for Yuanyi who was just a terrible mother for Shaoshang but did love her deeply. yes these were the consequences of her actions towards Shaoshang all these years but still felt sorry and sad for her as she realised the depths of separation between her and Shaoshang.
Oh MC, I agree, it was agony seeing how changed they both were with the whole stirrup repeat. Kudos to the make-up department (and Wu Lei) for managing to make a beautiful young man look so haggard and old and weary and beaten. The contrast to the past memory where he was hopeful, as kfangurl says, was startling.
The scene where Yuanyi wails at the loss of her daughter and, belatedly, apologizes to Shaoshang for being a poor mother, was just one of many times I cried during these episodes. Yuanyi is not the mother that Shaoshang needed, but she is not a wicked person. We always think we have time…