Welcome to the Spoiler Zone, everyone!
This is for those of you who want to discuss spoilers, from a “I’ve seen the show and WOW now I’m noticing all these other details in retrospect” sort of angle.
Here’s a Spoiler Zone for you to dig as deep as you’d like, into spoiler territory, WITHOUT the need for spoiler tags or other warnings.
My only request is, PLEASE BE EXTRA MINDFUL OF WHERE YOU ARE COMMENTING. Meaning, please don’t get mixed up, and start talking spoilers in the Open Thread, which could seriously mar the watch experience for a new viewer, OR, a viewer who would really prefer to have the rewatch feel as fresh as possible.
Other than that, READER BEWARE: SPOILERS AHEAD!!!
For the main discussion of episodes 9 & 10, which only deals with spoilers up to the point of the group watch, go here.
ENJOY YOUR SPOILER ZONE, MY FRIENDS! ❤️
@the_sweetroad – You said:
Totally agree that Healer Senior leaving Healer so abruptly, and on his birthday, was really uncool. At least he could have warned him that his departure was coming, and really prepared Healer emotionally to continue life on his own. Especially knowing that Healer’s mom had left him (Healer Sr said he went to go find her, after all, in the flashback), knowing that the grandmother had passed away, and knowing all the backstory with Healer’s dad….it doesn’t make sense to me that Sabu wouldn’t be more kind and communicative in leaving.
Here’s my comment before I realized I was in the wrong thread:
@the_sweetroad – I agree. Either it’s one of the weak points in the story or writer-nim has a very low expectation of men. I’ll take it as the latter – that she wrote Teacher that way. (Although it’s hard to believe that a man who would put his life on hold to raise a friend’s child, and then literally sacrifice his life for him would be quite that cold. I mean, at least a phone call every six months or so would’ve been more fitting with what we’ve seen of the character.)
You’re right, @beez, from teaching Healer to sacrificing his life for him is quite the contrast from cutting off his relationship with Healer. (You’d think if Healer Sr loved Healer enough to sacrifice himself for him, that he would have done a better job maintaining that relationship.) Important people in Healer’s life really left him alone to flounder. I hate that.
😭🤧
@beez and sweetroad,
there is a definite contradiction in teacher’s character. it almost points to a schizophrenic tendency or split personality, unless it is just a case of “limping writing”. or… as i said one time before, it was intentional on teacher’s side – to make healer be able to deal with most difficult situations in his future life, in one word – to toughen him up to the maximum. which is pretty cruel and i am not sure it achieved the desired result. but this part of the drama is pretty troubling and difficult to understand.
@eda – I went back to ep10 after watching eps 11 and 12, and I realized that Teacher did give Healer a reason for leaving – he said “everytime I look at you I get this hurting stone in my gut” (I’m paraphrasing. He said something like that.
And I remember later on (not sure which episode) Healer is going to say “Why does it hurt everybody to look at me?” 😟😖😥
@beez,
everytime I look at you I get this hurting stone in my gut”,
i am aware of that, and it left me with a huge question, from the first time i watched it till now, which is still unanswered for me. what does the teacher mean by that stone in his gut? is it that painful because of the knowledge of what happened to all of them, is it painful to see how his protégé ended up alone in this world, is it too heavy of a burden to stay at healer’s side? something really almost tortures him when he thinks or sees healer junior. but what is it? you can’t say he just wanted to throw healer and this whole period out of his life and out of his psyche, you can’t just say he did not care for him deeply and loved him – sacrificing one’s life for another is the highest degree of love itself.
or is it that the writer simply did not know himself how to present it and why and for what reason.
@beez, everybody feels sorry for healer, but nobody stays by his side, for different reasons, real or imaginary, with various excuses, some pretty disgusting and cowardly beyond imagination.
@eda – Amen to that. SMH
@beez @eda
These are my thoughts about something said in an earlier thread:
i personally do not believe teacher meant what he said – timid. he was just kind of pissed, and called him timid just like out of annoyance, it was simply a matter of speech,
While the teacher was definitely annoyed, I think that he meant what he said. And I kind of agree with him. Healer convinced himself that he didn’t need anyone. But I suspect he was lonely. And afraid. Not of being with people in social settings, of course. And not ‘Bong soo” afraid. He was afraid of getting emotionally involved (romantically or not). He might seem self-confident and brave, but if his life experience has taught him anything, it’s that he is totally forgettable and replaceable. He told his teacher that he was afraid he could kill himself. Another betrayal could definitely push him over the edge.
@MariaF – I totally agree with you. That quote was from @eda harris.
Very well-written. Beneath all the hero-ism – Healer is a very lonely and afraid soul and that’s why he latches on to the first person (Ji-An) whom he can trust fully and knows that she will love him dearly in spite of all his flaws whatsoever.
maria, i agree that healer is afraid of emotional connection, because life taught him that nothing good comes out of it. and as a result he withdrew from encountering this kind of pain he experienced throughout his life – what is called “lesson learned”. but i think being afraid of emotional connections and thus avoiding even a chance of getting hurt is not the same as being timid. these are two different things, in my opinion.
I got an impression that the teacher thought that Healer was timid when it came to his personal life in general. The teacher felt that Healer should’ve been more fearless in his personal life, regardless of his previous bad experiences. Like wanting to have a family of his own instead of wanting to buy an island.
maria, i think like every parent, teacher has his dreams and plans for his student/kid. (if you noticed ahjuma and teacher refer to healer as “kid”). so of course he would want him to have a family and be happy in his life like any other parent, and so far his student is avoiding this path, so naturally teacher is not happy about it, and calls him “timid” out of frustration, for lack of another word. but does he really consider him timid? i do not think so, it is a fact that when he meets somebody who melts his heart he has no problem, he goes for it like any other mail in this situation.
When the teacher called Healer timid, I don’t think he knew that Healer would go after his girl. He wasn’t even sure anybody could melt Healer’s heart. But I could be wrong. If we are being honest, I don’t think it’s a big deal what he thought. The important thing is that Healer did go after YS.
It’s interesting to see how decisive Healer is. Both times YS asked him to choose (I think it was East or West), Healer went for the first option. Without hesitation.
I agree with MariaF as far as Teacher probably knows Healer best (except maybe Ahjumma because it has just been her and Healer since Teacher left). When Teacher calls Jung hoo “timid”, it’s during the same conversation that he says “to Jung hoo, women are like gum on the street”. As I said before, we know that Teacher knows Healer is not afraid of anything when it comes to physically handling himself but he hasn’t had to cope with anyone on a personal basis. Even later Moon ho asked him “do you have any friends?” Healer avoided answering because he has none. You don’t get good at dealing with people when you’re on almost total isolation. A romantic relationship is even more tricky to navigate.
But as to the east and west questions – yes, Healer was quick and decisive about answering but he really didn’t think those questions were about anything of consequence at the time Young shin asked them. It was only after he heard the answer – a hug or a talk – that he knew that last time that the question had anything to do with their relationship.
Healer was quick and decisive about answering but he really didn’t think those questions were about anything of consequence
Yes, it wasn’t a life or death situation. But still, it illustrated how quick he is at making decisions. Here is another example: the moment he finished reading YS’s email, he started choosing an outfit for their date. And Ahjuma couldn’t make him change his mind.
I think this quality made him an excellent “Healer”. Just learning how to fight wouldn’t have been enough.
@MariaF – of course, you’re right about Healer being decisive in order to be Healer but I thought we were talking about his decisiveness in terms of Youngshin. Which, once he decided to be with her – yes, he was immovable; but Young shin is the one who really made that decision.
@Eda – I totally disagree with your assessment on this. Yes, Ahumma and Teacher call Healer “kid”. In S.K. society, you’re treated as a kid until about 30-35. (I know, it mind boggles). 😆 But I don’t think that Teacher nor Ahjumma were hoping for Healer to marry and have kids 1) because they do consider him very young, not really ideal marriage age yet; and 2) Ahjumma would have to replaced Healer again so she’s not hoping for that at all! 3) Teacher has a dirty ol’ man outlook on life. He never thought about settling down himself and never thought Healer should either (my presumption based on what we were shown) until he was facing his own death and then have Healer that advice about “get out of the night courier life, marry and have kids.”
@beez,
Teacher nor Ahjumma were hoping for Healer to marry and have kids
may be no kids yet, but marry…or at least have a relationship, i do not think they would oppose it. i have seen in other korean dramas that parents press their kids, especially in the mid 20s-to very early 30s – as time is slipping away and they should seriously get on with the business of finding a mate. am i wrong? healer is 28 here, i would not call it “very young” even by korean standards and even that in south korea they would call young people “kids” up to ages 30-35 (the truth is kids always stay kids for parents in any society) but are they treated as “kids” – that is the question, and i do not think so. but you know better, so what is it?
Ahjumma would have to replaced Healer … i do not think that it’s a real huge problem for her. because she tells the teacher (even before) that healer became unruly since he got attached and involved with this girl and they might need to replace him – she is considering it and it is said with great ease. (i was even surprised to hear that.) i thought that healer was kind of one of a kind and irreplaceable (well, the teacher was the first healer, but it is also said the healer got better at it than his teacher).
Teacher has a dirty ol’ man outlook on life. i can’t agree with you more on that, but many times a parent can be one way, but wishes for his/her kid be better and have a better life. after all, at the end he does advise his student/kid to get married and have a family. so i do not think he wanted healer to become another “dirty ol’ man” like himself. and it is difficult for me to imagine that this thought just hit him for the first time like a lightning before facing death. it must have been somewhere in the back of his mind and was pushed out at this particular moment, since his time to give last advise was running out. but somehow i do not think that it was a GREAT REVELATION at the last moment.
@eda – Absolutely – 26-35 year olds are still treated as kids. You’ll often see adults in this age category say “Let’s leave, the adults are talking” and many times the adults are talking about decisions that affect these young people’s lives! Yet they leave for the adults to come to a decision.
And we see adults treating these people that we would consider adults like kids. That’s why they try to run their lives and think they have a right to do so. And why the “kids” grapple with the adults opinions about their personal lives (and, of course, the respect plays a large part in that.)
@beez, 26-35 year olds are still treated as kids. You’ll often see adults in this age category say “Let’s leave, the adults are talking” and many times the adults are talking about decisions that affect these young people’s lives!
so do you want to tell me that let’s say at 30-35 years old, a married couple with kids, will still wait for the parents to decide on their lives and issues? i understand when it is a single woman in her thirties, like in something in the rain, or a very young couple like in the heard it through the grapevine, but many people at this age are already married, with kids and have their own direction in life. so do they really allow their parents to dictate their whole lives?
@eda – when they’re married with kids it’s a little better (for the men) but not by much. In fact, in real life just a couple of years ago, Korean society was up in arms over a book (that became a movie) entitled Kim Ji-Young: Born 1982. They say the book is about a young wife who has the unmitigated gall to not want to deal with all the rituals involved in being a daughter-in-law. In real life, Korean d-i-l’s are expected to be their mother-in-law’s slaves – no exaggeration. It doesn’t matter if the d-i-l has a full-time job; it doesn’t matter if the m-i-l has her own daughters – those daughters will be sitting there doing nothing but the d-i-l is slaving away helping in the kitchen, making kimchi, cleaning, etc. (I guess the idea is that when those daughters get married, they’ll have their own mothers-in-law to be enslaved to.) This is why it’s so crucial to young brides to not want to live with their husband’s family. She will be expected to get up before everyone else to make breakfast and clean up behind it before she goes to work. Coming home from her job, the work continues. Family death rituals are her responsibility to help her mother-in-law so a new bride hopes her husband’s family is not large.
It was mostly men protesting this book. Any Korean celebrity who endorsed the book or even took a picture holding the book was criticized harshly.
I watched the movie and, unless it focuses on different aspects of the young woman’s life than the book does – in the movie the d-i-l issue was downplayed as it focused more on her mental health.
Oops, I forgot to answer the question – yes.
@beez, ok, so i do not want to come back in my next lifetime (it better exist, i do not want to part with life ever), as a korean woman, or better yet married to a korean man, even somebody like healer. but… there is a ray of light. dong hoon’s wife in my mister does not do anything in her mother-in-law’s house. so can it be that it is changing in korean society, or may be just the beginning, in certain cases.
@eda – it is slowly changing and you’ll see mothers-in-law upset that they can no longer treat their d-i-l’s that way(because they feel like they suffered through it and now it’s their turn to have a slave) but that’s only if the d-i-l has a strong enough personality to stand up to her m-i-l and society.
sorry guys, but somehow the word “male” (in my comment above) turned into “mail”. no idea how such things happen, very annoying. seems like computers have their own minds.
We knew exactly what you meant though… 👍
But a person can be timid about certain things – emotional connection can be one of them. You could also say “cautious” or ” overly careful”. I think you’re picturing someone who is fearful and afraid to act or take steps but that is not the only meaning.
(I wish my Korean were more advanced so I could get the absolute translation.)
@MariaF – I understand what you mean by your comment in the open thread for these episodes about Moon ho having to go after The Elder’s criminal group. I guess I’m thinking about how his ex girlfriend called him out about being a coward and always stopping short of following through even on his reporting stories (although my memories a bit hazy on what she actually said so I’ll have to wait until we get to that episode to know for sure). And also Jung hoo also said something along those same lines. It’s as if Moon ho has gone all this time knowing about The Elder and his cronies and has only safely skirted the edges and has been investigating but never really doing anything but now he acts because it’s convenient to seize ion the opportunity because of her position. I suppose you’re right that maybe Young shin being in danger made him act now, but I really didn’t like seeing him treat ex girlfriend that way because I think he’s used her and hung her in limbo for years with the excuse of his first love instead of “fish or cut bait”. I guess I’m just mad at him right now. I’ll go back and forth about him as we go along.
Similar to the way I feel watching Moon shik rise up on his knees in a subservient position ready to plead (in the subtle way that The Elder likes) for Moon ho after the Someday press conference crash and broadcast. I really felt for Moon shik in these episodes. It felt like even though he’s embraced and relished the power The Elder has given him, he’s still just juggling trying to keep his wife and brother safe.
Our feelings towards Moon shik could be complicated, for sure. A lot of bad things that he did were done to keep his wife and his brother safe. But not looking for Ji An after she ran away? There is no excuse for this kind of abhorrent behavior. This was a betrayal of such magnitude that it just can’t be explained away.
I’m not very familiar with the MH and his ex’s storyline. I didn’t feel their relationship was important, so I didn’t pay much attention. It looks like he took her for granted during all these years. But wasn’t it partially up to her whether to continue that relationship? She could’ve told him to ****.
@MariaF – you were soooo right! My impression is that it was a great convenience for Moonshik that Jian disappeared.
Since my memory is faulty (because Moon ho’s relationship was never my focus before either 😆), let’s discuss that some more after we get to the episodes that I’m trying to remember.
Hi everyone, it’s been a while since I’ve jumped on. Real life has been so busy…just wanted to say that you’re so right, Beez and MariaF, Moon Shik wasn’t too motivated to go after Ji An. As sympathetic as I am toward some of his story, that was an unforgivable act in my book. I don’t even know how he could live with Myung Hee after that.
Just thinking more about it, it would’ve been so much easier to find her then if he’d just given a little bit of effort. I still think they were in front of a police station (but I might be wrong about that), they could’ve checked the CCTV cameras and dash cams if he had jumped into action right then. Heck! If he had just called her name. She couldn’t have gone far walking as she was.
Do any of you remember if it was a cop who said “We found her behind a trash can” to Moon shik?
I know, @beez, seriously! Just some effort and he could have saved Young Shin. The irony is that he married Young Shin’s mom – if he had saved her, mom and daughter would have been together in the same household, all this time.
About finding her behind a trash can – that vaguely rings a bell.
@the_sweetroad – I think we’ve already been shown the scenes in these last 10 eps but I’m not sure (too many rewatches), but Myung hee was running from The Elder’s goons and she stopped and hid Jian on the side of a large garbage dumpster in an alley and told her not to make a sound. So when the authorities turned her over to young Moon shik, they said “we found her in an alley next to a trash can”.
Later we learn that because Myung hee told Jian not to make a sound is why she was considered mute or as if something was wrong (like special needs) but you can see how much little Jian trusted Moon shik because despite her midgets orders, she called out “Samchoon!” and ran to him with her arms outstretched. She must’ve thought everything would be okay once she saw him. *that b*stard* 🤧
Yup, he betrayed so many people during that time, and little Ji An was one of them. Ugh. It’s really heartbreaking. Poor little girl. As a kid at an orphanage, she had a very happy adoption story, but it could’ve been so much worse.
By the way, something I’ve always wondered – who was the one who was actually beating her / traumatizing her with a pipe when she was a kid??
I just watched Ep 9 yesterday and need to catch up with Ep 10 today! Right now I’m just going on memory w/ Ep 10, haha.
@the_sweetroad – As far as I know, Show never said other than we know that person broke Jian’s ribs so we can only assume it was one of her adoptions. I hate to even think about it but if someone would hit a small child like that, and with a pipe, I wonder what else *shudders* he might’ve been doing.
she was thrown from one adopted family to another. so that was one of the adopted dads. the cruelty of it is unimaginable, and the question in my mind, don’t they have in korea agencies that check adoptive parents before allowing them to adopt a child? don’t they go through psychological evaluations?
I don’t know about Korea, but in U.S. adoptive parents are definitely vetted. Nevertheless, abuse and negligence happen. Sometimes children even end up dead. It’s a cruel world.
Seriously @eda harris! Just terrible.
@eda – I know they have adoption agencies (at one time they were mainly for all the children put up for adoption to the USA back when S.K. was still an undeveloped country and many citizens couldn’t afford to keep their children – just 60 years or so ago.) Up until recently S. Koreans looked down upon adopting kids because the bloodline is considered very important. I don’t know what kind of oversight or policies the agencies have though.
@beez,
moon shik was afraid that if he will bring ji an to her mom, myung hee will not come to moon shik (the little girl would be a reminder of myung hee’s dead husband and father of ji an, and a reminder of their relationship). moon shik entire being was concentrated to get and to keep myung hee by his side, for ever. nothing could be allowed to stand it it’s way. actually, she was a bit part of his life’s tragedy. can it ever be justified – of course NOT, EVER. but can it be understood, i think yes. great loves can lead to great craziness, and we see it in history. moon shik’s character is probably the most complicated and interesting character in this drama, definitely multidimensional.
@eda – I guess this is where I have to admit to that “strictness” you accused me of because I have ZERO tolerance – don’t care what the excuse/reasoning is when it comes to harming children either through direct harm or negligence. No leeway, no sympathy at all! ZIP!
@beez, i would totally agree with you on that. ZERO tolerance !
MS is so rotten inside! I imagine his thinking was that, once MH hears about JA’s death, she’ll just move on and forget about her dead daughter and her dead husband.
It didn’t even occur to him that, had he found the girl, Muing hee would’ve given him a chance. She could’ve loved him.
@eda harris and @MariaF, Moon Shik’s “love” and obsession with Myung Hee made him act in such a cruel and deceptive way to her, didn’t it? Instead, if he actually wanted the best for her and for her mother’s heart, he would have found Ji An and brought her back, and then he could have seen if something could have developed between him and MH. As the old saying goes, If you love someone, set them free, and if they come back to you, they’re yours. He lied and manipulated her to have her stay with him…and in the end whatever was between them was never true love. He kept her prisoner in that blasted luxury home…I was so thankful when she finally broke free.
I just watched Ep 10 and Ep 11 last night, and saw the scene where MH goes to have coffee with Healer’s mom – and Healer’s mom tells MH that “the man you live with” told me that if I wanted to keep Jung Hoo safe, I had to stop trying to clear his father’s name.
UGH!!!!!
yes, sweetroad,
if he actually wanted the best for her and for her mother’s heart, he would have found Ji An and brought her back, and then he could have seen if something could have developed between him and MH.
right on, although that is your logic and ours, but ms probably forgot or had no time to consult with his therapist, (lol) so he royally screwed up both of their lives and more. no, really, the man had a twisted logic, or may be ptsd from the elder’s treatment.
@the_sweetroad – Agreed. When you truly love someone, you love the people that they love even if you can’t stand them – meaning, you want no harm to befall them because what hurts the one you love hurts you.
@the_sweetroad – UGH!!! is right and a whole bunch of swear words too. But I’ll wait until we get to that episode before I start with Healer’s mom. 🤬
But I wanted to point out to you that when I read your paragraph, I was puzzled going “Moon ho met with…” Ohhhhh. She’s talking about Mung hee (or however you spell her name). 😆 Same initials.
Oh yes, good point! Sorry for the confusion. I’ll spell them out from now on 🙂
@the_sweetroad – The names! The names! I still have such a hard time with the names. That’s why I resort to calling characters by their descriptions: Producer Girlfriend; The Weasel; The Pimp-Construction CEO, etc.
Smart. Honestly, I have such a hard time with the actors and actresses’ names themselves sometimes. Like the guy who plays the construction pimp. I love him, but I have to look up his name on Asianwiki every time to make sure I get it right.
oh! I forgot to comment on your saying girlfriend needed to kick him to the curb 😆
That’s probably true but in most real life relationships that I’ve seen, women are the true flag holders for “keep hope alive!” even when the guy is not a great catch like Moon ho. As you know, women hang on through all types of men and situations with men. C’mon! Moon ho is a highly successful famous reporter, 6’2″ (in S.K. at that!) with a penthouse! And stocks & property, etc., etc. 😁😉
Yep. He is a catch!
hung her in limbo for years with the excuse of his first love instead of “fish or cut bait”
Why did he do that?
@Maria F – Well, he kept referring to his “first love” as why he couldn’t commit -which I think we, the audience, thought he was talking about his sister-in-law (I have to stop and smile/tear up over the spoiled milk) – but he was referring to Jian. At least I think he was referring to Jian (not in a romantic way).
But now that I think about it, that doesn’t make sense because Moon ho didn’t know Jian was alive until just recently when he got the call about the empty grave, not while he was in that relationship.🤔
But he did have unresolved issues about his part in the cover up of what happened to the 5 friends in the ’80’s. The more I’m talking about it, it sounds like he just didn’t want to commit and used these reasons as his excuse to her and to himself.
Beez – Clearly the first love of Moon Ho was his sister-in law and not Ji-An. There are many scenes up until episode 10 that underscores this. Please please kindly accept this as you are a hardcore fan and flag-bearer of Healer. Hence I do not want you to have any confusions about this and it will also help you to understand Moon Ho much better. To sum up he had a crush on his sister-in law since his childhood and he is very protective/affectionate towards Ji-An because she is his first love’s daughter who had been lost and found. In any case feel free to let me know what you think of this.
Also I don’t think it is a commitment issue. Just that he really had unresolved issues from the past (he knew what his brother did and his lying to police, what happened to the 5 friends etc) that was weighing him down and those emotions got the better of him. So he just felt that he is better off alone than look the other way and have a happy life with his girlfriend.
@Princess Jasmine – I don’t see it that way. I did at first, but after many watches, I change my mind every time as to whether it’s his sister-in-law or Jian. In either case, I never felt it was true romantic love that he ever thought to act on in a romantic way.
I do agree that he had issues that made him not want to commit but he should not have strung his girlfriend (the producer) along while he sorted them out. It still smacks of an excuse not to commit. He shouldn’t even have entered into a long-term relationship until he sorted himself out. As a Korean man, he knows what a Korean woman would expect the eventual outcome of an “adult” relationship to lead. (You can tell I’m not pleased with Moon ho at this point in our story.)
I feel sorry for Moon ho. He was just a teenager when all that happened, right? I can’t even imagine what he went through. One day they were one happy family. The next day two of them are dead (and one of them supposedly killed the other). The third one is in prison. JA is also dead. Jung-hoo is g-d knows where. Myung hee is half-paralyzed. His brother is the only one left standing under the suspicious circumstances. This kind of experience can scar a person for life.
yes, maria, i feel exactly the same.
@MariaF – That’s true 😥
princess jazz, there are different kind of loves, yes, his sister in law is very close to his heart. we did not see any parents of the brothers moon hoo and moon shik, so it is clear that the 5 friends were moon ho’s family from a very young age. later on moon shik tells his brother that he and his wife see him as their son, and i totally agree. i feel that moon ho loves his sister in law, but as a mother-figure or older sister, that raised him. there is nothing romantic or sexual in their relationship that i can pinpoint or perceive as such, can you?
did he have unresolved issues from the past? of course he did (and who does not?), but i do not think that this pushed him to choose to be alone. and by the end, when the issue with ji an is resolved, it looks like he’s back with that girlfriend – i think he does have feeling for her, just had to do things first.
You are correct. I don’t think he has any overtly romantic / sexual sort of affection for his sister-in-law – at least thats what I deciphered from my viewing.
And I agree that Mun Ho has to sort a lot of things and maybe he feels that it is best to attend to all that before he could commit fully to his girlfriend.
Actually I wrote everything I had in mind about him – under the review work of FGV for Healer. You can read more about my thoughts under the comments section in there.
@beez,
i disagree, i think moon ho smelled a “rotten fish”, he intuitively knew that ji an was not dead, and he felt a fierce commitment to her, even that he did not see her physically in front of him at the time. he needed to find an answer to that unsolved in his mind problem, and until he finds it he could not commit to anybody else, which would have meant to drag this girlfriend or fiancé into this huge mess.
But @eda – that’s you reading into it because nowhere are we told/shown that Moonho suspected Jian might still be alive until her “grave” was disturbed. If he suspected, why wasn’t he looking for her before? If you saw a scene that showed Moon ho suspicious that Jian was alive before that, tell me which scene? I’ll go back and watch for it.
@beez, If you saw a scene that showed Moon ho suspicious that Jian was alive
i think his dreams and nightmares point to this (jung’s theory of dreams…). but i agree, he could have and should have done more given all he knew from history of the 5 friends. we later learn that he did some research to look into all these connected issues to discover the truth, but didn’t continue … something stopped him.
@eda – but I think we’re told that Moon ho had guilt and bad dreams over the murder that happened between the friends that he felt culpable for backing Moon shik’s lies. The nightmares about Jian only started after it was discovered that there was no body in her coffin.
My criticism of Moon ho really wasn’t about the old murder case nor of Jian being deceased/missing. He was a kid at the time and was not responsible for any of what happened. I respect that he has been looking into what happened for so many years even though he’s in a difficult spot, knowing his brother is in the middle of it all. My issue with Moon ho has been mainly about Producer Girlfriend.
@beez, o i see. but the dreams, i do not remember, but i think that it did include scenes with him meeting baby ji an, and even more. but am not 100% sure.
@eda – Yes, he did have dreams about baby Jian but the catalyst for those dreams is when he was informed about the empty coffin some months earlier than where we (the audience) are picking up the story.
There are so many different opinions. I guess I’ll need to watch these scenes. I think I fast forwarded most of them when I watched the show.
So very true about women unfortunately.
beez, that was because moon ho told her that she would be number two in his life. there is a number one woman that he has to pay his debt to her and now we know that it was ji an. but his girlfriend did not want to be second in his life, and so she left him. but at the very end it looks like they hook up again – moon ho says at some point that she is still his best friend.
@eda – yup. That’s what I said.
maria and beez,
But wasn’t it partially up to her whether to continue that relationship? She could’ve told him to ****.
it seems like they had a pretty good relationship, they dated for some time and seemed to have a mutual affection for each other, if not more, but each of them had different end results for this particular relationship at this time: for her it was “time to get married”, for him it was “if that’s what you want, but…you can not be my number one woman as i have a big debt to pay to another woman (ji an is always on his mind, as he most likely has his suspicions on his brother). at this point she decides that being a “second” woman does not agree with her and she leaves the relationship.
this stays an unresolved issue in moon ho’s life, dealing with it through his dreams and nightmares. and that is why he starts the dna tests, after confirming that ji an’s coffin was filled with stones and not a body.
so i think it was a mutual decision to separate, and the separation was painful but amicable. and they still considered each other close friends. that does not point that she felt that she was used in this relationship.
I was looking at some synopses of really old dramas and when I saw this actor in one of them, it hit me that not only did he play The Elder in Healer but he’s also a major antagonist in Six Flying Dragons (aka Roots of Throne). I did not recognize him even though the two dramas are only a year apart and I watched them consecutively. And it’s weird that only upon seeing young pictures of him did I recognize his older self in both dramas.