Alright, folks. I saw from the Open Thread, that a number of you are really, really wanting a place to discuss spoilers, from a “I’ve seen the show and WOW now I’m noticing all these other details in retrospect” sort of angle.
Let’s try this out. Here’s a Spoiler Zone for you to dig as deep as you’d like, into spoiler territory, WITHOUT the need for spoiler tags or other warnings.
My only request is, PLEASE BE EXTRA MINDFUL OF WHERE YOU ARE COMMENTING. Meaning, please don’t get mixed up, and start talking spoilers in the Open Thread, which could seriously mar the watch experience for a new viewer, OR, a viewer who would really prefer to have the rewatch feel as fresh as possible.
Other than that, READER BEWARE: SPOILERS AHEAD!!!
For the main discussion of episodes 1 & 2, which only deals with spoilers up to the point of the group watch, go here.
ENJOY YOUR SPOILER ZONE, MY FRIENDS! ❤️
Actually, looking again at that scene, the specific complaint was about not being able to raise the volume. The context was that he worked all day in a job he hated, but he had to stay in in order to financially support the rest of the family (and he had little money and a lot of stress). Yet, as soon as he came home, he did the housework because he wanted to be supportive of his wife as she pursued her career. And yet, she directly went to the studio (not that his feelings of abandonment were of any concern, considering how she routinely ghosted family meetings she was invited to -ep 1, ep 7, scene where she meets the brothers and it’s remarked she spurned quite a lot of meetings, the dinner at her mother in law where the latter cooks her specialty, because it’s such a rare event for them to be there together-), and he was left alone without even able to turn on the TV’s volume (and therefore probably to watch the TV).
I tried actually watching the clips from the first two episodes again, to understand whether I was missing anything major. The only clip where we see her doing anything related to housework is her literally picking up three or four clothing items from the floor. Black pants, grey coat, possibly a yellow scarf. Don’t look like his clothes (he wore a white shirt, which presumably, and apparently, he didn’t throw on the floor). Might be hers from the beach walk, though the coat seems lighter in fabric and tone. In any case, that’s the only thing even remotely related to housework we see her do. In terms of job related work, that day she was at the beach with her lover. So that’s that.
Let’s remember that we are later shown and even explicitly told, in the apology scene, that among other housework (grocery shopping, sorting the groceries when she has other stuff to do, wiping the floor) he is the one generally doing the laundry and washing the dishes before she comes home from work.
By contrast, we see him going up a tower, and Ji An pushing a bed with her grandma on it
I wish during her apology scene, or during the flashback in the car after learning he knew, she had gone back with her mind to this moment, and realized how what she had complained about her lover doing to her, she did to Dong Hoon. And he just sit there, taking it all in, without uttering a sound. Compare that with her furious fight wit her lover, who does not carry a second phone, and whose commitment she questions (she doesn’t know how right she is, yet).
She ghosted his family (a familiar occurrence, no pun intended, see episode 7… she knows he can’t mold him as she wishes, so she has no reason to spend time with them anymore, when she does not even consider them family -compare this with Dong Hoon’s brother paying Ji An’s grandma’s funeral with all his money, without asking anything in return-). Only to resent him for going there without her, who missed them deliberately, of course.
She did it to go to the beach with her lover. She calmly takes in his pain, that he silently bottles up, incapable of continuing the conversation, and either does not care or does not understand (does not allow herself to understand?) that she is the cause of it.
It would have been a great moment of self reflection in the flashback or apology. And maybe a little ability to understand how what she was doing when she had the fight with his lover is the same thing she does to Dong Hoon. Seeing a pattern of possessiveness and insecurity there might have been useful.
Between her ghosting Dong Hoon’s family here and what she did in episode 7, I get the feeling that this is pretty much an expected occurrence, and that they just don’t expect her to be there anymore. Which is why they are so surprised when she is. She did them favors and spent time with his brothers trying to get in Dong Hoon’s graces, so that he would let her mold him into who she wanted him to be.
It was unfair and useless, and she resented him for it. She kept score of them and expected him to change a core part of his life and personality in return. Compare this with Dong Hoon’s brother paying for Ji An’s mother’s funeral with all his possessions. So sad that she couldn’t see the beauty Ji An and the viewers see in the people of the neighborhood, in their connections. Thou, in the end, she ends up living together with her kid, so she has the kind of nuclear family she wanted. Her loss, in the end.
Having watched all the episodes, I think that it is sad that up until the very end she never questions whether she should address the feelings of insecurity that she also had with her lover, during their fight about the phone, and see a parallel with the situation with her husband.
I found the first part of the comment a bit (maybe unintentionally) ironic, since he was the only one kept in the dark about their plan to steal the money from the wedding gifts.
Regarding the second comment, they do talk about the day, he gives some generic answer for his experience at the wedding (he was probably embarrassed/ashamed by the theft and his brother fighting with his wife, causing a scene), but then shuts down when she asks whether they asked about her absence. She had made up an excuse/lie to avoid going to the event, and spent the day at the beach with her lover instead.
It’s clear that he was upset at the fact that she spurned the invitation and was not there with him (this is only one of many times, remember she did the same in episode 7, and again he was disappointed, but resigned… she cared about them only as long as she was biding her time, trying to mold Dong Hoon into what she wanted him to be, when he didn’t agree to change a core part of his life and personality, distancing himself from friends and family, she showed that she didn’t really like/care about them -hated his friends from the neighborhood: her words, though probably an exaggeration; considered his family in-laws, not family: family was only her, her husband and her kid), and also at the fact that she didn’t call him (we see a scene of him checking his phone while at the wedding and not finding any calls). Instead of confronting her like she does with her lover, he simply shuts down in silence and bottles up the pain and grief inside.
Actually, I must say that I simply didn’t see this. She was back from a day at the beach and putting clothes in order. We know from future information and scenes that he is the one that does laundry and dishes before she comes home, as well as clean the floor (many, but for example the time of her flashback in the car, where he tries to call her and she cries in anguish at her actions) /buy groceries and sort them out when she needs to work (apology scene prelude).
Regarding the supposedly idillic scene with her lover, I think that we are seeinng the same dynamics as with Dong Hoon. There was a parallel scene where she had an argument with her lover about this same topic: him not carrying a phone, her carrying it around every day, and checking for his messages 12 times. He says it would be too risky, she says he could do it, but just does not want to.
This seems suspiciously like a conversation she could have with Dong Hoon, and they are not even married and living together. This speaks to me of a general clinginess/needyness/possessiveness/control streak, and probably a deeper insecurity and need to monopolize her lover/spouse attention in order to get validation. She does thin with her lover, she did/will do/does? it with Dong Hoon.
There is also this nice parallel with Dong Hoon calling her, and her not calling him, while she calls her lover and he does not call her. And a different way of coping: she has a fight with her lover, while he shuts down in pain and does not lash out or recriminate in grief, bottling it all up inside.
In the whole two episodes, as far as I could find by looking through the scene, she only has one scene where she picks up some (three or four) clothes from the floor. I don’t see Dong Hoon’s white shirt among them, but the pants and coat might be the ones she wore on the beach (though the coat is lighter) and there is something like a gray scarf). As far as I can tell, that day she didn’t work, because she went to the beach with her lover.
She is now a bit tired from the trip, but the total amount of work has been: 3 or 4 clothes picked up from the floor, and a walk at the beach (could go under leisure, since it’s not job related, thought maybe one would feel tired at the end). For comparison, in the same episode we see Dong Hoon climbing a tower, and Ji An pushing her grandma on a bed in the open.
Actually, I watched the scene again, and we only see her picking up some stuff from the floor. She does not appear particularly tired out by work (either as a lawyer or at home), nor does she seem to do much in the home in the first place (we know that her husband did the laundry and the dishes before she came back home, plus buying groceries -and sorting them out if she was busy-, and we see him cleaning the floor -for example in the scene where he calls her when she is flashbacking in guilt, in the car-).
Regarding the relationship, on a second watch I noticed the way she nagged her lover, having a fight about her carrying her phone around all day and checking it twelve times, and him never carrying one around. He says that it’s because it would be imprudent, she tells him that he could do it, he just doesn’t want to.
Sounds like if they actually took this to a serious place they might have some confrontational dynamics, and seemed indicative of her generally being clingy/needy/controlling/possessive/feeling insecure and needing constant validation, even by her lover. But I can see how this could evolve down the road.
This is basically the same dynamic she has with Dong Hoon, the same attacking because he does not give her enough attention. There are the seeds of this even here, and they don’t even lived together.
Hello matrice, I’ve deleted one of your comments because it’s a duplicate.
Your opinions are welcome, but please refrain from posting duplicate comments, as I’ve mentioned to you in my email. You can refer to my updated commenting policy here. Thank you.
Hello, it was not really a duplicate, though, it lacked the spoiler parts that I put in this section, and I had edited out from the other comment to make it “safe” on the open thread. Is this in violation of the policy as well?
Hi matrice, it was basically largely a copy and paste, which is unhelpful to other readers. Please stick to posting each comment only once. It’s not necessary to post the same or almost identical comment in different locations. Thank you for your understanding.
Okay, I thought I would rephrase it and edit it to post it also on the open section, since the general point held up without the additional spoilers, but the spoilers added more context. If that is not okay, I will rephrase it instead. Do quotes also count as duplicate parts (like quotes of the article?). Or just my own input?
You could leave a comment on the Open Thread, letting others know that you’ve posted a comment about “XYZ” in the Spoiler Zone, and you could also leave a link to your Spoiler Zone comment, if you like, so that people can find it easily. I think that would be more helpful than posting almost duplicate comments across threads.
Quotes may be used more than once, that’s fine. It’s your personal input that I’d like to request for you to post only once, in one location. Leaving multiple almost identical or completely identical comments in many threads becomes very confusing for other readers, that’s why.
Okay, I thought it was more clear and immediate to read an edited version, but I am okay either way. Thanks for the clarification.
Thank you for your understanding. ❤️
Actually, we see that she picks up some clothes (she was probably reordering stuff after her trip to the beach with her lover). Dong Hoon was a bit upset at the fact she didn’t call him, but choose to endure in silence as always, instead of calling her out on it like she would have probably done.
I mean, the pants and coat might be the ones from the beach (coat is a bit lighter), I don’t see her husband’s white shirt anywhere, so they don’t seem to be the clothes he wore at the wedding. In terms of her job, that day she went to the beach, so it’s unclear to me what should be tiring from that perspective, though of course walking on the beach could tire you out, in a relaxing sort of way, as well.
If we consider Dong Hoon and Ji An, now… in this episode he had to climb a tower, while Ji An is seen pushing her grandma on a bed in the open, presumably in terms of calories both activities would be enormously more expensive -I don’t think the three, our clothing items she picked up where made of lead-.
Actually, we know that among all the other housework Dong Hoon did he also did laundry and dishes before she came home, every day. Plus wiping the floor, buying groceries, sorting them out when she is busy, etc., all the activities we see him do around the house. In other words, she doesn’t look overworked at all (and certainly not that day, when she was on vacation).
Yes, Dong Hoon remained kind and supportive of Yoon Hee during the run of the show, and as people talked about elsewhere they just had different love languages that passed each other like ships in the night. Once she betrayed him, though, AND knew about the bribe and being framed and never told him, I think it was over for him in his heart….even though he wanted to endure and keep presenting the image of a stable marriage.
Plus he really really really hated Do Joon Young, and couldn’t believe she would sleep with that man of all people! It was interesting to me how he asked her, “How could you be so stupid?” and he meant it! I think you said it somewhere in your posts, and you’re right – DJY would never truly give his heart to YH in love, or care about her. In that sense DJY and DH are totally different people with different outlooks on what love means.
I’m still subscribed to this thread so I’ve been seeing all your comments as they come in, @artistaraccolta, and wow you have some great insights! Makes me see in even more detail how badly Yoon Hee was treating Dong Hoon, while accusing him of not being committed/ not communicating with her, etc.
Ahh, I thought I would just check out the Open Thread once in a while and see how it was going. Now there’s this Spoiler Thread and I’m not getting any other work done in real life. Nothing like talking about MM in detail to derail any other well-laid plans 🙂 . Must. Get. Off. Computer.
Even if you only post those insights here, we can pass them on to the others on the non-spoiler side.
(I’m assuming this was a reply to my comment on the other side, about you having compared the subtitle translations on Netflix versus TVN.)
@merij1: I couldn’t find that comment about difference in translation. I’ve also noticed some differences, and they are really important, in my opinion.
I saw your comment on the open thread after I posted this here! 🙂 And I did notice differences in the Viki vs the Netflix subtitles that I’d be happy to share when relevant. In the Soompi Forum post, I was talking about the differences between what some people saw in the original TVN version (which I never have had access to) and the Netflix version (like the absence of the song El Condor Pasa, and the absence of the Peppermint Candy film).
Boy, don’t I know how you feel!
please inspire me! to get out off the computer and live my own life instead to those dramas!
@eda harris – no can do. We are all in this together 🥰
@phl1rxd – 😇
I can’t inspire you!! I’m back on the computer to check in on this thread! Haha. MM viewers are definitely a great family, though. I love discovering new details with others who have watched it again and again. MM is like good, rich literary fiction.
So, we’ll need to experiment with this spoiler thread vs. the original. I’m hoping it doesn’t become fully segregated, in the sense that those of us who’ve seen the show only comment here.
One technique I see myself using is to make a non-spoiler comment there, but then provide a link to my extended spoiler observation here.
To do that, you hover your mouse in the margin to the top right of your posted comment. When the little link icon appears, click on it. That copies a URL to your cache that points directly to the comment, just like the links we receive via email notification.
Or at least it works if you’re on a computer. On my phone, I find the email notifications don’t always find their way to the exact location of the comment.
Using the secondary spoiler thread will be incredibly useful when we start the Someday Or One Day group watch, eh? All that twisty time travel stuff is confusing.
I suspect we’ll want to confer here at times on whether to clarify things a first-time watcher can’t figure out on their own. Sometimes a hint would be useful, but other times it will be best to allow the ambiguity to continue until the next week’s episodes.
Or maybe KFG will clarify those choices for us in her preface to the spoiler thread.
An excellent suggestion about providing a link. People will have a choice of following the link. Or not.
Yes, great idea. That way we’re not all chatting here :).
easy for you to say. anything to deal with computers and electronics in general seems alien to me. sad reality, i am so dumb in this department.
Wouldn’t be interesting if Korean dramas inspired you to become computer savvy?
@Eda – No worries. You only need to hang out with Healer’s ajumma hacker par excellance, Jo Min Ja (played to perfection by Kim Mi Kyung) for a few weeks and you will be a computer superhero. ⭐🧙♀️ ⭐Until then, just fake it ’til you make it. That is what I do, and not always successfully. 😏
phl1rxd (couldn’t you find an easier name for yourself?) anyway. you of all the other people from the group seemed to share with me my huge appreciation of the rise of the phoenixes, (still my very favorite and my first love) so from what i gather, we have somewhat a similar taste, at least in dramas. also, you were the one who insisted on me watching the SS, which was another hit for me. so i kind of trust you (even without the “kind of”). so you mention the healer. does that mean you recommend for me to watch it? if you say so , it will be my next one to watch, that’s how much i trust you. by the way, are you watching hearing through the grapevine?
in regards to computer issues, i am unfortunately a lost case, there is some resentment in my brain to anything electronic.
Eda – I myself have troubles keeping up to date with all the latest updates in the computer world so I am right with you. Things change so fast it is hard to keep up.
As for Healer, by all means take a look at it as, like SS, it is another real true classic. I added the link to Fangurl’s marvelous review – her rating is A+. I believe you may enjoy it! Another classic is Queen In Hyun’s Man (another A+ rating by Fangurl) and it is a great love story with a time travel theme. Both dramas are old, but both are so good I have re-watched them.
I queued up Heard it through the Grapevine but I got diverted (this happens to me often Eda 🙄) by Who is the Murderer. This should be over soon and I will then start Grapevine.
The OTP in ROTP is still the best I have seen to date.
phl1rxd , The OTP in ROTP is still the best I have seen to date. – which drama are you talking about? better that chen kun and nini?
both dramas ascended on my list (i just have to finish the one i am embroiled in now – the most depressing drama ever, in my imagination i think i feel like these poor animals covered in grease and oil after a mega-spill in the ocean, and not even 10 showers a day help the situation – that’s how much DIRT and pure ABOMINATION is in this drama. anyway, it is ruyi’s royal love in the palace, 87 episodes of pure emotional pain, but at the same time glorious beauty – the palaces, the costumes, the hair styles, you’ve never seen anything like this – it’s a feast for the eyes.) and i do not recommend it, unless one enjoys pain or is a women-hater. although you might want to just take a pick for the sake of the let’s say costumes, omg, the costumes!
in regards to computer, you might be running but sometimes stumbling in the “computer department”. i on the other hand, am not even able to stand steady. sad, but true.
LOL Eda – I am talking about Rose of the Phoenix and Chen Kun and Nini. My favorite OTP to date.
I have stayed clear of Ruyi’s Royal Love in the Palace. Kind of glad I did after reading your assessment about the pain. I also heard it was beautiful but I passed on it.
I love Healer, too! It’s a top favorite, after My Mister. The dual roles that Ji Chang Wook plays – one dorky and one very serious and smart – are done very well. And the OTP has great chemistry. There are a lot of funny moments because of said dorkishness, too.
So great! Thank you KFG! Watched it many times now, and am always picking up something new. When I watch the first two episodes now, I see how insecure Do Joon Young is, and how much the other Directors hate him. And @Trent and @Maria F, you’re right – Ji An is telling the truth about her secret, which is pretty gutsy. She has a desire to get the secret out there so she doesn’t have to be scared about people finding out later. And she also doesn’t care about DH yet, so she’s not particularly anxious about him finding out just yet. I also like that in these early episodes they establish that Ji An is a hard worker. She’s always shown as busy doing her job (inventory, receipts, copying).
Remember, they had a conversation later in a bar? Dong Hoon said: “If people don’t know, it’s nothing”. And Ji An said: “Wouldn’t it be better, if people knew from the beginning? Otherwise, you always have to wonder, whether people already know. Or when will they know?”
Is that why she told Dong Hoon, who was pretty much a stranger at the time, about the killing? Her criminal record was sealed, nobody had to know. And yet… Or she just wanted to scare people into staying away from her?
She most definitely expected Dong Hoon’s reaction (to not take it seriously and assume that she was just brushing him off) and was using it as a way to push him away when he was trying to make small talk with her.
Good points, Maria F and Pixaiated. I think at this point she’s pushing him away. Like she said in Ep 12 at the interview for DH’s promotion, she never really invested much in friendships or caring what people thought about her (paraphrase). So in Ep 1, if she’s only at Saman for 3 months, she’s not all that interested in making small talk with DH. What strikes me is that she is constantly honest about herself “A person is the worst thing I’ve killed,” “I threw the bribe in the trash,” “Yes, I like Park Dong Hoon”. But perhaps I was premature to say that she was *trying* to get the secret out there! 🙂
“Who did you kill?” – what kind of small talk is that???
It’s an extension from the ladybug incident / conversation he had with his other co-workers about the worst (animal) they have killed. The one where he shares his story of his dad butchering a pig.
Yes. This is the essential difference between these two.
“Stick your head in the sand and pretend the scary/upsetting thing doesn’t exist, and thus never know (or pretend not to know) others already see or suspect it” vs. “face it head on, because, otherwise, you give it power over you.”
Later on, Ji An violates his strong and clearly stated preference by telling his wife that he already knows about her affair. And thereby does him a huge favor. Against his lesser judgment.
Ji An is such a great character.
Dong Hoon doesn’t like confrontations, of any kind. Why is he so suppressed? I don’t remember anything happening in his life to make him this way.
And why did Ji An tell the wife? Didn’t she want them to stay together?!
Yes, she did it because she knew it might help save their marriage.
One of my least favorite k-drama tropes is when protagonists on the same team inexplicably fail to share critical information — leading their loved ones to navigate treacherous territory based on bad intel.
In this case, Ji An went the other way. And, yes, her motivation was entirely pure. She’s so badass!
Why would that save their marriage?
Well, I need to admit it right here: I think nothing can save their marriage. Their problems are too deep. Her cheating is a symptom.
I’m not sure I remember exactly, but I think Dong Hoon’s call was that it was less humiliating if his wife wasn’t aware that he knew about the affair.
Whereas based on the combined intel she had from listening to his life, blow-by-blow, and what she’d learned from the boss guy (or maybe by eavesdropping on the boss guy’s conversations with Dong Hoon’s wife), Ji An recognized that this was leading to bad decisions on his wife’s part. Bad, in terms of the impact on Dong Hoon and his marriage.
As to whether the marriage survived all this and whether it even should, I can’t recall what I thought by the end. I think I assumed it might work out. But even if it didn’t, I believe it would have ended on a far less bitter note.
You might be surprised how many marriages survive a single period of infidelity. I know of several just in my family and among my closest friends. It takes a very long time to rebuild trust, but it definitely can be done.
Interesting to think about why JA told YH that DH knew about the affair. I haven’t thought of that in a while. I know she said it after YH asked her to quit Saman and basically go away. And JA said, “You’re scared DH will find out about your affair? He already knows.” Maybe she said it to help YH (again) come to her senses. But maybe she just didn’t want to be forced away from DH’s side? She already knew Do Joon Young would just get someone else in there to fire DH if she left.
You are right: many marriages survive a single period of infidelity. The thing is that her momentary lapse in judgement is not the main reason of their marital problems.
Id like to revisit later the reason Ji An revealed Dong Hoon’s awareness of the affair. I don’t remember enough details, but I was suspicious of her motives the first time I watched the show.
Yes, we’ll have plenty of time for that in the weeks ahead.
My recollection was that she was acting as his guardian angel, putting aside her own self-interest. (Not that she ever stood a chance of becoming his girlfriend, but you know what I mean.)
If I perceived that incorrectly on my first watch, it certainly won’t be the first time that’s happened!
Dong Hoon’s call was that it was less humiliating if his wife wasn’t aware that he knew about the affair. yes, that’s exactly right.
Or it would’ve forced them to address the elephant in the room: their unhappy marriage.
yes, but there are a lot of reasons people want to save their marriage (holding on to the commitment, fear of moving on and fear of change in general, financial worries, not ready to take the risk of upsetting their son (we later learn they have a son) and staying together for the sake of the child, and sometimes hopes of being able to refurbish the failing marriage…) there are so many more reasons to try to save a marriage.
In this situation, it’s Dong Hoon’s self-sacrificial tendencies coming into play. Not wanting to ruin the image of a perfect, happy family, as that would make his mother and his son upset.
I agree with all the reasons you mentioned. I just don’t see it happening. The relationship is too damaged, and not just by the affair itself. The bigger problem is with whom she had an affair and why.
“with whom” – is a blow below the belt, no question. but sometimes those things happen, it’s almost like a magnetic field. or just looking to get out of the stale situation. for him thou… it might be jealousy, revenge, god knows what – he is a nasty specimen. i am not saying that’s what happened between these two, but i do not think or do not remember that this issue of why and how it happened is explained anywhere in the drama. so anything we speculate here is just that – a speculation.
It could be convenience: she was obviously willing, and, as that specimen explained to Ji An, “married women are the best, because there is very little burden“.
By the way, I love to speculate, imagine or interpret when watching movies or shows!
well, mariaf, knock yourself out, that’s a perfect outlet for speculation, imagination, interpretation and all such things. and we all enjoy it, that is why we can not move away from this damn computer.
by the way, it could have been convenience, but somehow i think it is way more than that.
You could be right. If I remember it correctly, Dong Hoon rejected the CEO’s offer of friendship when they were in college. This affair could be some kind of a payback.
Yeah, when Dong Hoon and Do Joon Young have their confrontations in the show, Dong Hoon says that even back in college, he never wanted to be friends with DJY because he thought he was greedy and underhanded (“You made your underlings do your dirty work for you,”). And DJY wished that Dong Hoon had been nicer to him in college. I think DJY also looked down on DH for not being very ambitious.
Sounds like back in college, Dong Hoon was the “cool” one that people, including DJY, wanted to be friends with.
To add on, her knowing about the bribe but not actively stopping it, and even taking an active role to get Dong Hoon to leave his job (in a nicer way but still the intentions were obvious) and clear the way for a her affair was the last straw.
Right! That was a betrayal on a totally different level.
Yeah. At first you think they’ve just drifted apart, and perhaps there’s hope for their marriage if they both would just put in the effort. But – she knew about the bribe, didn’t tell him that she knew that DJY was behind it (she let DH flounder), didn’t care if he was fired, and was going to divorce him for DJY. All of that, on top of their already distant marriage….I just don’t think there’s any coming back from that. The trust was broken. It’s a lot of DH to have overcome if he wanted to reconcile with her.
it was nice at the time to have an affair, kind of a vacation from “life”, but did she really intend to go through with the divorce? i am not sure, because later on, when everything is on the table, she seems to genuinely regret and sorry, and it also seems that she would be willing to stay in the marriage and do whatever needs to be done to smooth things with dh. sometimes, after a shock, people might discover that they really do not want to loose the relationship and it gives a sort of a boost, or awakening to the entire event, or whatever you want to call it. but of course, for dh it could be too late, even that he does not like to “rock the boat” in general.
It’s anybody’s guess what would’ve happened, if that CEO were a good man. But he is not. So, of course, she is full of remorse.
That conversation that they had after the wife asked for Dong Hoon’s forgiveness- it should’ve happened before she decided to have an affair ( with anybody). Their relationship and their lifes could’ve taken a different turn.
In my opinion, a ‘good man’ wouldn’t start a relationship with a married woman.
But yes, the whole relationship could perhaps have worked out a lot better if there was better communication from both parties, especially DH. It would still have required a lot of work considering how different both of their perspectives towards life / values were, but it might have been workable.
“In my opinion, a ‘good man’ wouldn’t start a relationship with a married woman.”
Sun Jae from SLA did.
Hmm.. yeah, I am probably making the mistake of judging things in a black and white fashion – there’s probably always exceptions to any situation.
Haven’t watched SLA but plan to – looking forward to understanding the relationship there.
I think Yoon Hee was, in the beginning episodes, preparing to get a divorce. She even says to Do Joon Young when they break up in Ep 8, “I was going to get a divorce because of a bastard like you.” She and DJY had a whole plan, to get DH away from Saman and for YH to divorce him. After YH comes to her senses, she does come back to DH….but yeah, I think by then it’s too late. The betrayal is too deep.
This was foreshadowed in the bar hyung’s words in Ep 10, “Either you put up with her for 3 years and divorce her, or 10 years and divorce her.” It’s really too bad….but I do think they end up divorced in the end. Plus, she said she hated Hugye and all the people around him. DH didn’t give any indication he was willing to move away from Hugye. Lots of irreconcilable factors. Again, it’s too bad, but I don’t think the show sets them up to be happily married at the end (AND she’s in America!).
At the same time, remember what DJY said in response to her – something along the lines of “You would never have gotten a divorce”. DJY’s perceptions about the characters are generally very spot on, and some part of me feels that this is accurate as well. My read of YH is that she still does care about DH, and that she wouldn’t have been able to follow through with asking for a divorce, especially if DH just got fired.
That said, I do agree that they are definitely split up at the end of the series. The betrayal is a huge wedge between them that can never really be resolved, I think. The barkeeper’s words are probably the clearest hint – it’s one of the few times the show is not at all subtle.
At the same time, remember what DJY said in response to her – something along the lines of “You would never have gotten a divorce”. DJY’s perceptions about the characters are generally very spot on, and some part of me feels that this is accurate as well.
Yes, you’re right! And I was just looking at that line yesterday, too, haha. I think her intention was to get a divorce (at least that’s what she said) but I believe DJY’s assessment is accurate, that she wouldn’t have been able to go through with it and “abandon the people you’ve called family for over 10 years.” Thanks for the reminder.
“At the same time, remember what DJY said in response to her – something along the lines of ‘You would never have gotten a divorce”.
He would’ve said anything to shift the blame from himself to anyone else.
I agree that they have split up. Dong Hoon looked too relaxed and happy at the end of the show to doubt that they are not together anymore.
I’m not convinced they are split up, but I don’t want to expend a lot of commentary on why until we have reached the later episodes and have them freshly before us…
Aside from knowledge of the bribe, there’s one more thing that YH kept from DH practically for the rest of the show – JA’s existence and YH’s knowledge of what JY asked her to do. JY said so himself in their confrontation in ep 12, that YH was trying to make things work for DH so that she doesn’t have to reveal to him her knowledge about JA. That’s another huge wedge on top of the bribe and this secret YH kept until DH asked her himself about JA in ep 15. (At this point, I don’t think DH can be bothered anymore by discovering another level of betrayal from YH. He’s just focused now on finding and helping JA.)
The statements made by YH in that ep 12 confrontation with JY was the most categorical in saying that the marriage is dead: “DH and I can’t be together anymore.. Do you know what kind of hell we’re living in right now?” “.. and I have to put up with DH’s hatred.” “I’ll put up with all his hatred..” “I want him to divorce me not because of you, but because of me.” Hatred is a strong word for me. It’s one thing to have an absence of love, and another matter altogether to have hatred.
Aside from knowledge of the bribe, there’s one more thing that YH kept from DH practically for the rest of the show – JA’s existence and YH’s knowledge of what JY asked her to do. JY said so himself in their confrontation in ep 12, that YH was trying to make things work for DH so that she doesn’t have to reveal to him her knowledge about JA. That’s another huge wedge on top of the bribe, and this secret YH kept until DH asked her about JA in ep 15. (At that point, I think DH didn’t care anymore about finding out another betrayal from YH, he is just focused on helping JA from hereon, eps. since he would also need YH’s help.)
The statements made by YH in that ep 12 confrontation with JY was the most categorical in saying that the marriage is dead: “DH and I can’t be together anymore.. Do you know what kind of hell we’re living in right now?” “.. and I have to put up with DH’s hatred.” “I’ll put up with all his hatred..” “I want him to divorce me not because of you, but because of me.” Hatred is a strong word for me. It’s one thing to have an absence of love, and another matter altogether to have hatred.
actionsript, you are right about the extent of omitting the truth. once one starts with lies in any relationship but especially marriage, it usually never stops at just one incident. it is like a string of pearls, once the necklace breaks, the pearls are scattered all over, no longer being a precious item.
and yes, you can string the necklace together again, but it will stay forever vulnerable, as the string itself will be prone to break again, not being the original.
Yes, Dong Hoon’s microexpression when he asks Yoon Hee, “Do you know Lee Ji An?” and she acknowledges it. And she acknowledges that she knew what DJY had asked JA to do as you pointed out. There was a whole back story between DJY, JA, and YH that DH didn’t know, and you’re right, he would feel betrayed all over again.
The fact that YH is ready to expose the affair is decent of her. As she keeps saying, she wants to help JA stay out of jail, and she’s willing to expose her affair, because “she started this” and she wants to help make it right. But her words to DJY on the rooftop in Ep 12 are pretty clear in that she knows their marriage is headed toward divorce. Like I keep saying, the show doesn’t put things in for no reason :).
“Like I keep saying, the show doesn’t put things in for no reason :).”
So the conversation with the bartender wasn’t there for nothing.
Also, Ji An saying she wanted to reveal to everyone that she had killed a human wasn’t an accident either. She told DH about it. She told that mean secretary/office manager about it too. That wasn’t a small talk.
It’s really on re-watches that we pick up more of the subtle hints and clues (“breadcrumbs,” as others have said elsewhere) woven throughout the show. And there are so many! You’re right – what’s small talk on first impression can actually be pretty significant in this show. I liked how others put it here, “Lazy Viewing it is Not”: https://givemeslippers.wordpress.com/2018/06/24/lazy-viewing-it-is-not/
Thank you for the link. I also read your analysis on soompi. Very thoughtful and insightful.
so much for being nice, or a good woman or “wife in the past”. a human being is a complicated creature, but some things you just do not do, like stubbing your husband of many years in the back, (and he did not do anything to intentionally hurt her) because by encouraging him to leave (knowing all his circumstances with his family and not that easy to find another job), she wants him to leave for the benefit of her lover (and her). momentary misjudgment or a not so nice person?
Honestly, I think it’s fairly complex, and to some extent she still cared about DH even as she was doing all that stuff.
She did feel remorse after finding about the bribe (“We are becoming bad people”), and at that point the bribe had already been sent out, which is very different from something like actively scheming to getting him fired.
Sure, she could have called it out at that point, but doing so at that point implies throwing DJY under the bus and possibly revealing their affair – which is also hard to do since she cared about DJY as well.
Her pushing DH to leave his job was obviously for her own benefit, but she also tried to do it in a way that would result in minimal harm to him, with her offering to help support him in the initial stages.
She also did see how unhappy he was at his job (“Going to a slaughterhouse every day”), and was clearly frustrated that he was in such a situation as well. I think her pushing him to leave was partially motivated by this as well – ultimately, him leaving the company would probably have been a good thing for his personal happiness, as underlined by the eventual ending.
As you said, a human being is complicated, and the writing in this show is good enough to reflect that.
Also, I believe the potential divorce wasn’t the main reason why DJY wanted to get rid of Dong Hoon. DJY knew that DH hated him and, given an opportunity (a promotion), he would’ve voted to fire him. Hence the demotion, harassment, etc. The bribe was an accident, but DJY was happy to use it to advance his goal.
It’s amusing that we’re spending so much time debating elements of the show that most us haven’t seen in a long time and therefore might not remember clearly, long before they actually air during the group watch.
I definitely do not remember this clearly, but my emotional memory was that his wife eventually sees what a dick the CEO is and gets back in touch with what a good guy DH is. That’s the thing about affairs — it’s like going on vacation. Hardly the same as actually living with someone.
If for no other reason, I thought they ended up together because that’s DY’s nature.
Yes, she definitely comes to a realization of what a dick he is, to the point of actively despising him, and despising herself not only for the adultery per se, but for falling for him in the first place.
There’s a lot of growth and moral awakening in the show, and not just by our main characters…
Yes, that fits exactly with my emotional memory.
Which I found very satisfying, I have to say. I never hated her, but I definitely judged her and was glad to see her face herself honestly in the mirror.
I think we’re meant to judge her at first, at least somewhat, because the affair is presented so up front and in your face. I actually ended up appreciating her growth and convinced she definitely has a core of decency. And I found the scene where she kneels down in the kitchen to apologize to DH to be extraordinarily powerful.
Yes, my thoughts and emotions exactly.
She’s a very well written character, for the most part. She does some despicable things, yet at the same time she’s very sympathetic and even understandable.
s/b: DH’s nature
Ji An intervened, of course, and helped the wife to realize what kind of man DJY was. She played the recording.
“It’s amusing that we’re spending so much time debating elements of the show that most us haven’t seen in a long time and therefore might not remember clearly, long before they actually air during the group watch.”
You have a point. Eventually we might have to establish a few rules re how far we are allowed to go. For now, I’m just enjoying the freedom of expression.
Oh it doesn’t bother me. I’m just amused.
This is just what happens when MM is involved. I just watched the whole show again 3 weeks ago, too, so everything is fresh in my mind — but I tend to go on rabbit trails with MM very easily. This is why this spoiler thread is so dangerous for my real life. 😄
I’m new to commenting on the site. Is there an easy way to check new comments and new replies? Or do we need to always scroll through and discover them?
Hey sweetroad! You can learn more about the commenting system here! That should answer most of your questions. 😊
Most of us use email notifications for that.
Probably you already know about this, but just in case:
At the top left of the comment section there’s a Subscribe dropdown menu — you can choose to be notified of all new comments or just replies to your comments.
I don’t know about other email services, but for Gmail I get a single email with cumulative notifications for all new comments to any KFP blog post I’ve subscribed to. Surprisingly, the most recent unopened email keeps updating itself until I open it.
Each comment includes a link that takes me directly to the comment so I can reply or review the context just above it.
Only thing is, for me that URL only works from my computer. I can always read the full comment via the email, but if I want to reply, the URL never seems to get me to the exact spot in the comments when I click it via my iPhone.
Definitely read the post that KFG just referred you to. There’s all kinds of cool stuff explained there.
For replies made directly to my own comments, I also get a parallel notification via WordPress.
Based on my WP settings, those appear directly in my phone notifications.
Clicking on the context URL above those replies always gets me to exactly the right spot, if I want to respond back.
However it does so via WP, not my regular web browser. And if I “like” the comment, it doesn’t seem to transfer to the blog site.
Note how quickly I can respond, since I got a notification on my phone!
Ha! I did follow your very good instructions and subscribed to email notifications, but your reply hasn’t been emailed yet! 🙂
I would argue that her sharing that piece of information wouldn’t have helped save the marriage, and in fact, actively harmed it. I don’t remember it clearly off-hand, but there’s dialogue / actions later on that suggest that neither of them could continue living with each other after this information was out in the open.
Of course, forcing Dong Hoon to forever act as if he had no knowledge of the affair was a horrible solution as well, and showcases his horrible tendency to sacrifice himself. It’s great for everyone involved that Ji An made the call to expose everything.
I think I agree with “her sharing that piece of information wouldn’t have helped save the marriage, and in fact, actively harmed it.”
Also, am I wrong to see some vague similarity to SLA: an interested party gets involved in another person’s affairs. First Ji An tells the wife to go back to the husband, and then reveals the husband knowledge of the affair to possibly ruin their relationship.
maria, may be she herself did not know what result she wants to achieve. she just acted on impulse (although i have to admit, this girl is very calculated, but she’s still very young with not enough life experience to judge such a situation). and that is why there is kind of a double message coming out of her behavior – to save the marriage or to ruin it.
Honestly? I don’t know. Could’ve been anything: an impulse, good intentions, jealousy and resentment towards the wife, getting the best of her.
I think you’re right, I don’t think anything really traumatic happened in his life to make him so suppressed, except that maybe Ki Hoon and Sang Hoon got more attention when they were growing up (if they had larger personalities). From my personal experience, there are some people who just hate conflicts (my husband being one of them haha). They’d rather ignore and repress until they explode in anger. They think it’s much, much easier to go through life ignoring what they want and feel than to have those difficult conversations. In a way, they think their thoughts/ desires/ opinions don’t matter. Or it just makes them feel exhausted to think about fighting for what they want. If you’re familiar with the Enneagram, I think Dong Hoon is a classic Enneagram Nine.
Gosh, I haven’t heard anyone refer to Enneagram numbers in decades!
It’s been a while since my wife and I saw My Mister, so I recall some things clearly and others not so clearly.
How Dong Hong became such a silly-billy about sticking his head in the sand is one of the things I don’t remember. But I know for sure that it’s a self-defeating way to live one’s life, so I was grateful when Ji An violated his wishes.
The key was that she thought it through to the end, based on all the things she knew about him and his marriage from her eavesdropping. So it was not an impulsive savior complex move at all.
Wow, you heard of the Enneagram decades ago? Good for you! I’ve only studied it in earnest the last 10 years or so. It’s been so helpful for our marriage! LOL. I did a writeup of PDH being an Enneagram Nine over here, if anyone is interested in reading: https://forums.soompi.com/topic/408082-drama-2018-my-mister-%EB%82%98%EC%9D%98-%EC%95%84%EC%A0%80%EC%94%A8-best-drama-at-2019-55th-baeksang-arts-awards/?do=findComment&comment=22206655
My first wife, mother of my children, lived in a Roman Catholic intentional lay community back in the 1970s. It was one of their primary tools for self-awareness.
I don’ t think this is ever explained – it seems to be just his character. I always assumed it was just the that twisted “Ideal Father/Husband” image that is often portrayed in k-dramas – the silent sufferer who prefers to bear everything himself, wishing not to burden wife/children/anybody else.
Interestingly enough, when DH’s friend monk asked him if he wanted this kind of life for his kid, his facial expression was “Definitely not”.
Had to google “Enneagram numbers”. Interesting!
Number Nine sounds about right, although there are other traits there. Number Seven he is not, for sure.
That made me laugh! Nope, not a Seven for sure. 🙂
wow, the enneagram! many years ago i invested much thought into this while being a part of gurdjieff/ouspensky work. i think he was the first one (gurdjieff) to bring it to the western world.
sweetroad, if you are interested in it, you might want to read some of gurdjieff’s books.
Will look! We have several Enneagram books at home, most of them coming from the Franciscan/ Catholic tradition. Thanks for the rec.
it seems everything turned grey in his life, (and so there is no real interest, no prospect of adding any color)plus the enormous pressure to support his mother and 2 brothers. and i do not know whether it was a slow process, or just kind of recently happened. and ji an feels conflicted about her own feelings towards dong hoon (does she like him just as an older uncle or even father figure, or is it more of a romantic nature) and whether she wants him to stay with his wife (whether it will be a good thing for him in the long run). in addition, she is in a habit of telling a blunt truth, so may be she thinks he NEEDS to know the truth to make the final decision about his marriage. and that will be for her an act of friendship.
Don’t forget they have a kid in the US. It must not be cheap either, although I’m not sure why they sent their son to the US at such young age. Strange.
Dong Hoon and his wife don’t seem to have common interests, goals in life and don’t enjoy the same things. It’s hard not to become alienated in this kind of relationship.
Ji An definitely helped Dong Hoon to discover his wife’s infidelity by telling him about the pay phone. My question is why she told his wife that he was already aware of her affair. To help him to end his marriage too? Because she thought it’d be good for him?
There’s multiple possible interpretations I think. I am sure that we will discuss in more detail when we get to that episode, but I think that the primary reason was that Ji An wanted to, in her own words, get her to wake up and get back on Dong Hoon’s side. Keep in mind the context, which is that wife stated that she did not care whether Dong Hoon got fired.
i think he’s saying, if you do not know it, (or even pretend you do not know) it can not hurt you.
Thank you KFG, I withheld sharing any opinions since I had seen My Mister & I don’t want to unintentionally write spoilers, despite having your standalone review for each episode as reference in the open thread. However, I would say that if we are going episode-by-episode, the next open thread would be ideal since my turning point for this show happened in the next 2 episodes…
Awesome, KFG. My Mister is an oh wow for me. As I have stated many times, all over the place, it is in my top three favourite shows of all time – for any genre and any country. So, my top three are: My Mister, Deadwood and The Pallisers (no particular order and I have changed one of the shows because I reminded myself recently how good it was). So what do all three shows have in common? The acting, the dialogue, the imagery, the intrigue and damn good story telling 😊
Sean, you maybe missed that there are two threads on this MM group watch — this one is for posting spoilers.
Thank you, Merji.
Thank you KFG! Honestly, I didn’t even expect my suggestion to be taken seriously, since I just started participating in these discussions. I hope this will work.
Uh on…someone made “Mom” “mad”……😳😬 🤭 Not naming names, but “he” did it 👇 Totally teasing 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
We have been working hard to be better over on the Patreon Deep Dive Zone with Spoiler Alerts.
Looks like we need to do the same over here 🙂
Thanks for this option KFG 🥰
Thanks, KFG! A good solution, I hope, as long as we are all careful, as you admonish, not to forget what we’re posting where!
SO, one thing that I was dying to say over there, and hopefully was not spoiler-y when I alluded to it, is how the Dong-hoon/Ji-an dialogue about killing hits so differently when you know what’s behind it.
The first time you hear it, it’s like, “haha, edgy joke…umm, it’s a joke, right?” And then on a rewatch, it’s like…”Oof. No, it’s not a joke, dammit.”
I didn’t think it was a joke even when I watched this conversation the first time. The way she looked and talked, Ji An didn’t strike me as person who would make jokes. I suspected that something was behind it. But I definitely didn’t expect her to be telling the truth. She was too young. Actually, I didn’t know what to make of it.